kali
Active Member
Me whens someone mentions Sheppard East on top of SSE:
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OneCity
Senior Member
Thankfully the noisy opposition to subways in Central Scarborough will be fully ignored for the Sheppard line now that it resides are the Provincial level and it will likely to continue into it's design phase next term. The line is very well supported by both the Cons and Libs at the Provincial level.
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CapitalSeven
Senior Member
One subway line running at 1/4 of capacity is not enough for a corner of the city. It clearly needs two so that it is equal in status to the core.
Aplus23
Active Member
kali
Active Member
no offence but you're utterly impervious to logical reasons why the sheppard subway makes no sense. you're even alienating SSE supporters like me lol
kali
Active Member
because it won't have subway level ridership and is a waste of money when we have much more urgent priorities elsewhere in the system (and plus scarborough's already getting its extension)
Aplus23
Active Member
Scarborough extends well east of mccowan and not everyone in Scarborough is trying to go downtown. Right now a Scarborough resident like myself who wants to go to say Fairview Mall or the Yonge n Sheppard area is only serviced by buses.
A Sheppard east extension doesn't have to be subway grade, lrt would be more than welcome for the users
Northern Light
Superstar
When it comes to a Sheppard subway, there are compelling arguments from a ridership perspective and the way it would have to be built (tunnel) to go to VP. There is virtually no argument to extend it further east in the near to medium term; particularly in light of other priorities.
There is actually a more compelling case to extend it west; though not for reasons of ridership; but rather as a connection to Wilson Yard, to make it easier to bring trains to the Yonge portion of the line in early mornings.
Though both of these clearly rank below an R/L / Ontario Line; and Yonge North will follow that. (though for now, the case is only really there to go to Steeles, but I digress)
Steve X
Senior Member
I think servicing a terminal could just be a waste of time for people trying to take the bus through. It adds 3-5 min to every trip trying to loop through it. They should just dump people right in front of an entrance like the Dufferin bus. Saves space and time.
The 54 would have 2 branches as it reads,
54A Science Centre Stn - Starspray Loop
54B Science Centre Stn - New Lawrence East Stn
154 would take over the Orton Park branch.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
It's definitely not an ideal location for a bus loop, but assuming it was actually on Lawrence, running a bus through the loop wouldn't have been that big of a drain on trip times, and would have improved the commute for most users.
Haydenpoon
Active Member
I think they planned more service east of the station than west of the station.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
Here's the flaw with that argument: assuming that an extension to an existing line has to fill up before it reaches the existing line.
No normally operating subway ever operates at filled capacities in the outskirts of a system, ever. It picks up passengers as it goes along its route, only crush loading as it reaches the core. If you fill a train all the way up in one area, then it can't properly serve the rest of the line.
Even if the subway is 1/4 full by the time it reaches Kennedy (It'll almost certainly be more than that), that's still between 300 and 400 passengers per train every 2.5 minutes, or around 8.5K PPHPD. Compound that with an existing 20K PPHPD on the rest of the Danforth subway, and your train is crush loaded when it reaches Bloor Yonge — Exactly how things should be.
For context, look at all the other outskirts of the subway system during the AM peak:
Etobicoke (Line 2 West Side) — ~130K PPD. Trains have open seats till around Runnymede. Crush Load occurs at around Ossington.
Downsview (Line 1 Sheppard West South, prior to TYSSE) — 110K PPD. Trains have open seats till around Yorkdale. Crush Load occurs at around Spadina
Vaughan (LIne 1 TYSSE) — 90K PPD. Trains have open seats till around Wilson, with reverse-commute trains being standing room only until York U. Crush Loading occurs at around St. Clair West
Sheppard (Line 4) — 50K PPD (shorter length though). Trains are standing room (occasionally crush loaded) only past Don Mills, but run smaller trains and less frequently.
North York Centre (Line 1 Yonge Side) — >200K PPD. Trains do not have open seats past Finch, and are crush loaded south of Sheppard.
Scarborough (Line 2 West of Kennedy) — 150K PPD. Trains do not have open seats after Warden. Trains crush loaded at around Pape, then again at Castle Frank.
The SSE is going to get at least 100K PPD (SSE and Sheppard east will be very much like Sheppard West station prior to the TYSSE, which saw around 40K PPD. Lawrence East will be like Lawrence West, and will likely get around 20K PPD), likely closer to 120-130K PPD once ridership matures, which is only 1/3 of what a subway is capable of. However, it's very in-line with the ridership of all the other extents of the system.
And if the argument is to be made that then Yonge subway fills up early, just remember that we're planning a brand new subway line to reduce that ridership. Ridership levels that high are not sustainable.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Perhaps they could retain the RT route as a transit way for rapid bus services.
robmausser
Senior Member
I was thinking that, like York busway type deal.
Haydenpoon
Active Member
Bus loop would only be beneficial to one direction, as the other direction will unavoidably need to wait for left turns, which can take ages.