News   Nov 27, 2024
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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

That will be hard, since Kennedy is on an east alignment, it will have to make a wide turn and there won't be enough room to construct a wider right of way so the stouffville tracks will have to be temporarily unable to use and the dream of go rer and smarttrack will be gone. The elevated guideway will need major construction and the corner at ellesmere. The platforms and stations will need massive rehabilitation and made accessible and spiced up. It's possible but we may be losing a lot. LRT would've taken its place better
Imo the turn will have to be wide and come up around the other side. You're right, but since they're not tearing up the streets it should not be as big a deal. The lack of disruption by using the SRT corridor is a plus.
If I remember correctly the original RT extension was going to go through Centennial College then north to Sheppard elevated so they could use that. Or simply extend the Sheppard subway directly to STC.
Fair. but would we would want the subway to loop around stc so it could go Kipling -> Yonge -> STC -> Yonge (sheppard) -> Vaughan? Or just end both at STC?
 
Don't mind the aboveground part, the removing bus terminals part concerns me. Neither of these projects will be successful if bus terminals aren't present.
But the bus terminals attached to the stations are what make the projects so expensive. If we could do a straight subway without any issues it may be easier for people to swallow, imo. Just something like Osgoode for all the stations for now. Add bus terminals later.
 
But the bus terminals attached to the stations are what make the projects so expensive. If we could do a straight subway without any issues it may be easier for people to swallow, imo. Just something like Osgoode for all the stations for now. Add bus terminals later.
The bus terminals add about 100 million dollars per station, depending on the size. Sure, not every station on the Yonge Extension needs them, but every station on the Scarborough Subway certainly does. I have shown this before: stations with bus terminals within the suburbs generate far more ridership than those with inconvenient transfers. The terminals are needed because they support the surface networks in the suburbs, thereby generating very high ridership at stations like Kennedy, Kipling, Finch, Islington, Warden, etc. They anchor the station's surrounding transit network, and allow for both grid and hub/spoke travel patterns. Remove those, and people have far less incentive to take the subway to work.

You're comparing a downtown station — whose ridership is defined by employment density — to suburban stations. Remove the Pioneer Village or Finch West bus terminal and I guarantee the majority of people would just continue to ride the bus to Finch Station.

The TTC network is defined by integration, remove that key aspect and far fewer people would take transit.

Besides, terminals are needed to provide looping for buses, washrooms for drivers, waiting areas for passengers, and centralized passenger connections — Not everyone that gets off at Finch is actually taking the subway.
 
Just the Scarborough Subway? There won't be any construction on any major project.

GO Expansion will probably see prepwork (utility moves, etc.) being done by June 2022 (next election) if the tender is awarded on the current schedule. That'll be the closest a Ford awarded project gets to construction.
 
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The bus terminals add about 100 million dollars per station, depending on the size. Sure, not every station on the Yonge Extension needs them, but every station on the Scarborough Subway certainly does. I have shown this before: stations with bus terminals within the suburbs generate far more ridership than those with inconvenient transfers. The terminals are needed because they support the surface networks in the suburbs, thereby generating very high ridership at stations like Kennedy, Kipling, Finch, Islington, Warden, etc. They anchor the station's surrounding transit network, and allow for both grid and hub/spoke travel patterns. Remove those, and people have far less incentive to take the subway to work.

You're comparing a downtown station — whose ridership is defined by employment density — to suburban stations. Remove the Pioneer Village or Finch West bus terminal and I guarantee the majority of people would just continue to ride the bus to Finch Station.

The TTC network is defined by integration, remove that key aspect and far fewer people would take transit.

Besides, terminals are needed to provide looping for buses, washrooms for drivers, waiting areas for passengers, and centralized passenger connections — Not everyone that gets off at Finch is actually taking the subway.
Like I said I agree, but we have to cut costs it looks like. Or this might not happen at all.
 
It's good to hear they're considering placing stations above ground. Removing bus terminals is concerning.

It's also concerning that the TTC isn't being consulted on this.

"Cutting corners" seems to be the new transit philosophy under the Ford government. There was a lot of talk of uploading resulting in more efficiency and economies of scale, but it doesn't seem much has changed.
 
It's good to hear they're considering placing stations above ground. Removing bus terminals is concerning.

It's also concerning that the TTC isn't being consulted on this.

"Cutting corners" seems to be the new transit philosophy under the Ford government. There was a lot of talk of uploading resulting in more efficiency and economies of scale, but it doesn't seem much has changed.
Small stations like Cummer have large bus terminals for what amounts to (I believe) two small local bus routes with fairly low frequencies. Some curbside laybys would probably be fine.

I can't imagine them eliminating major bus terminals like Steeles though. The massive underground bus terminal approved in the EA may get changed to a simpler above ground one though...
 
Small stations like Cummer have large bus terminals for what amounts to (I believe) two small local bus routes with fairly low frequencies. Some curbside laybys would probably be fine.

I can't imagine them eliminating major bus terminals like Steeles though. The massive underground bus terminal approved in the EA may get changed to a simpler above ground one though...

That would be less land for development though. Underground is likely most economical.
 
Small stations like Cummer have large bus terminals for what amounts to (I believe) two small local bus routes with fairly low frequencies. Some curbside laybys would probably be fine.

I can't imagine them eliminating major bus terminals like Steeles though. The massive underground bus terminal approved in the EA may get changed to a simpler above ground one though...
Question: Why does Steeles need a bus terminal if the line is going to Richmond Hill? And if Steeles gets one why keep Finch?
 
^Maybe because the bus and general traffic volume at Yonge - Steeles is too high for curbside drop offs. And it doesn't make sense to force TTC buses to use the RHC terminal. I imagine bus volume at Finch will drop substantially once Steeles and RHC stations are open. But there's no point in removing the terminal. Toronto's recent growth will probably return Finch to its previous volume a few years down the line after YNSE is built. I wonder what GO bus operations will look like at that point. Will they split between Finch, Steeles and RHC, just RHC or a mix of Steeles and RHC? I'm thinking it'll be a mix of Steeles and RHC. Any one have more details?
 
Not to be too credulous, but what are the chances Premier Doug I-don't-care-about-public-opinion-the-boos-mean-they-love-me Ford will expopriate all the backyards along this abandoned rail corridor and stick an elevated in it?

I'm trying very hard to not misunderestimate.

Scarborough.jpg
 

And of course, done with all the usual secrecy from the public.


"According to a confidential document..."

"Metrolinx spokesperson Amanda Ferguson wouldn’t clarify the document’s reference to..."

"Ferguson declined to answer specific questions about removing stations..."

"Ferguson declined to say whether the final report will be made public..."

"Markham Mayor Frank Scarpitti said the province hadn’t told him about the expert panel..."

"TTC spokesperson Stuart Green said the transit agency was not involved in the panel’s establishment or the development of their scope of work...”
 

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