raclll
Active Member
Thanks WK.
This morning they had the guidelines laid out on the southbound lanes. Feels very roomy!
This morning they had the guidelines laid out on the southbound lanes. Feels very roomy!
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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
ADRM
Senior Member
Ugh, city staff still putting lanes on the wrong side of parked cars, using subpar safety infrastructure where it's in the right place, and refusing to budge on the minimum possible width for protective materials where they do place it.
City councillors and a few mayors are most to blame for the dire straits of Toronto's current cycle infrastructure, but more and more I think the Transportation department is also complicit in the current state of affairs.
salsa
Senior Member
Northern Light
Superstar
As someone who deals w/the bureaucracy w/some frequency, I am typically their defender. Not because they are perfect, by any stretch, but because I am aware of the many challenges they face.
But in this case........ where's the metaphorical bus???
LOL
The cycling unit has been appalling in its performance for years.
Their inability to accomplish very light work plans that promise stunningly little, boggles the mind.
I don't doubt they face political opposition in some cases, thought that should be accounted for both when making proposals and when scheduling/promising their delivery.
In every year they have failed to meet their own work plans; or if you take a look the City's website...........just don't bother publishing the 2017 work plan, lest you be held accountable for its non-delivery.
In cases where they have clear political support (Ward 20 going back to Adam Vaughan) they can't seem to paint lines on the road.
In cases where they have support, funding and projects (Woodbine); they can't meet their own published timelines (implementation late June/early July) when those are already lax!
There have already been management changes in the unit in recent years.
I can't explain the hold-ups.
I don't think Transportation can either.
Time to hold folks accountable.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
You do realize that the Woodbine cycle tracks between O'Connor & Gerrard (2/3 of this project) will basically be the widest cycle tracks in the City at 2m CycleTrack plus 1-1.2m buffer with protective posts.
Minimum for bike lane is 1.5m, Woodbine is getting mainly 2.0m; but also 1.7m, 1.6m & 1.8m. Minimum for buffer of protected bike lane is 0.3m non-posted paint only buffer, Woodbine is mainly getting 1.0m & 1.2m posted buffer; also 0.6m posted buffer.
What's stupid is that cyclist along Woodbine would have less and less protective cycling infrastructure (narrower bike lanes and shared sharrows) as they get further south closer to heavier cycling areas like Queens Street, the Beaches and Martin Goodman Trail.
The executives in Transportation Services now are the most pro-cycling this City has ever seen.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The first cycling infrastructure that the city put in was the paving of the dirt streets. Unfortunately, that also gave the new fangled automobile a smoother ride.
There was a lot of unpaved streets in Toronto and its suburbs by 1908.
Nothing much happen to improve cycling until they started using herringbone sewer grates by the 1980's. See link.
While the city (and the province) supported billions for infrastructure for the automobile, infrastructure for the cyclists was a reluctant addition, if there was a few nickles and dimes available in the budget only.
There was a lot of unpaved streets in Toronto and its suburbs by 1908.
Nothing much happen to improve cycling until they started using herringbone sewer grates by the 1980's. See link.
While the city (and the province) supported billions for infrastructure for the automobile, infrastructure for the cyclists was a reluctant addition, if there was a few nickles and dimes available in the budget only.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Glad you posted that, Lis, as it makes a point some other posters fail to grasp.
Then that's a scathing comment on how lax they've been prior, since quite a few of the drain gratings you see above have been installed incorrectly....rather 'replaced' incorrectly by work crews, rendering them *traps* not grates for anyone with road-sized width of tire. And some of them are in situations where suddenly curving to avoid a very dangerous accident is impossible (under bridges, for instance).
Toronto is far from being the worst city for cycling. It's just as far from being the best. And what the hell does it take to have workers replace grates back into the positioning they were intended to be?
But then again, who the hell cares, eh? It's only cyclists being affected...
innsertnamehere
Superstar
recent street rebuilds have removed the sewage grates entirely, and replaced them with in curb ones. Removes the hazard for cyclists entirely.
ADRM
Senior Member
That's saying very little.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Interesting. I've had a few accidents over the years with the old style Toronto type grates, before these 'new' ones were installed to ostensibly address that danger. When there's a backflow or flood, you can't see the grates under the puddle, and boom. I've lost front wheels to them, but never got seriously hurt somehow. I'm still not fully assured riding over them today, even when the slats are correctly aligned and using larger section tires.
Just Googling now, can't find any reference to "removed the sewage grates entirely", if anyone has a link, most appreciated. Many cities do the curb method.
This is the most current reference I can find:
http://dandyhorsemagazine.com/blog/...tions-will-city-act-to-replace-unsafe-grates/
amnesiajune
Senior Member
In Markham: https://goo.gl/maps/dFuxSbbnHR62
I can't find any examples of where it's used in Toronto.
Avenue
Active Member
Given the current form, I don't think there's a right side. Any bike lane adjacent to parked cars is the wrong side and any solution that doesn't eliminate street parking next to bike lanes is only pretending.
ADRM
Senior Member
I'm totally with you conceptually, but I'm also trying to operate in the realm of the possible given this mayor, this Council, and this Transportation department.
I know a lot of advocates for safer cycling would disagree with this, but my personal view is that moving all of the most important parking-adjacent bike lanes in the city from the driver door side to the passenger door side would greatly improve the quality of the overall network. I lived in NYC for years, and really appreciated the bike lanes where they did exactly that.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Im not really sold on having bike lanes on the passenger side of parked cars tbh, so Im glad to see this. I've had far more close calls on Bloor where the lanes are on the passenger side than on streets where it runs along the drivers side. It's nice having the buffer from moving traffic, but I've had far more close calls from dooring than from cars running along side me.
I find drivers more attentive to cyclists when opening doors. (especially since they risk losing a door to a passing vehicle if they aren't careful when opening it) Passengers suck.
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ADRM
Senior Member
Yeah, I totally understand the notion and have heard lots of folks share that opinion, and I don't rule it out of hand. There are lots of studies that have shown that, statistically, there are fewer cyclist injuries and deaths with parking-protected bike lanes versus the opposite (recognizing that all that data is location- and circumstance-dependent).