turbanplanner
Senior Member
This photo is out of date? It's 1 car lane in each direction and a totally seperated bike lane for each as well.
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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Sure, as long as it’s not in a bike lane. For example, here in Cabbagetown we have counterflow bike lanes on one way streets. A bin or vehicle placed in one of these lanes would force cyclists to exit the lane and proceed directly into head on traffic.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
I still think it's silly a bike lane is always more important than a car lane
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I imagine you do. But where is this ever the case?
One justification would be that cars can more safely leave their lanes to navigate obstructions.
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bearcat
Active Member
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I am referring specifically to the configuration of Bloor at the intersection with Avenue, not further West, where it has been indeed two car lanes and two cycle tracks and space for permanent street parking in places, instead of previously four car lanes, two of which would be intermittently blocked by street parking outside of rush hour.
However, you are correct the photo is out of date, hence the word "current" above the photo is marked with an asterisk (*), with an explanation of "I am not sure if this has changed with the construction on Bloor West of here".
I found a YouTube video (
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crs1026
Superstar
Thus is trolling, and ten years too late.
If the bike lane is in place, maintaining an adequate safety level for users is not optional. The issue here was not one of priority or inconvenience, it was the hazard thst was created and the harm that resulted from a unilateral action by some person or business that had no authority to do so.
- Paul
smably
Senior Member
Oh, come on. This is an absurd position to take. Are you unaware that someone just died because of an obstructed bike lane, or do you just not care?
turbanplanner
Senior Member
"I am not sure if this has changed with the construction on Bloor West of here"
I know I'm just responding to that part of your post
turbanplanner
Senior Member
A dumpster is a bit extreme, but I don't take the position some people here have that a stopped UPS van is "attempted murder"
I cycle fairly regularly just not for transport, I took a 30 KM ride yesterday. My point is people being selfish is a fact of life in the city?
I notice a VERY COMMON trend of dump (happened in this case) and cement trucks killing pedestrians and cyclists in the city, they also tend to ruin the road from dropping loads.
NoahB
Active Member
I biked 135.93km yesterday.
Just because my lycra-wearing butt can handle the chaos of the current road designs, doesn't mean that kids and other less experienced users should not be protected. Safe bike infra is meant to keep people safe.
A stopped UPS truck that causes a list to veer, of course, and get hit by a car should be liable. At least partially.
In our case the company that dropped that dumpster should definitely be held to account.
turbanplanner
Senior Member
I pointed out just to say I do in fact use the bike lanes, I agree with you partial blame is to lay on who/what is blocking a lane. At the end of the day though it was a truck that hit her, and that seems to be the biggest ongoing issue from what I can gather. a fully separate lane doesn't stop trucks with rushed drivers are poor sight lines hitting someone in an intersection...
afransen
Senior Member
I think ultimately the city is responsible for designing infrastructure that is fundamentally unsafe.
Northern Light
Superstar
I don't think that is fair at all.
The City's entire road infrastructure is based around the car, or was as of 10 years ago, just like virtually every other city in North America, and much of Europe too.
Expecting that to change on a dime, and suggesting the City is liable if a change is less than perfect is a sure fire recipe to un-do all the cycling changes made and just outlaw cycling instead.
Your position here is inflammatory and unrealistic.
Change will be incremental.............there must be political (and community) buy in.
Yes, we can and should do better, but in the interim, we must hold those who abuse the existing system accountable (see contractor illegally blocking bike lane w/dumpster); and we must also educate cyclists (and drivers/other road users) to be aware of and navigate the dangers of things as they are today........and will be for at least a few more years.
afransen
Senior Member
I guess I could soften it to being the responsibility of the city, as well as design guide producers/regulators/the province, and the engineering profession responsible for the same. It is not really the fault of the victims, or even of the users of the infra, if injury and death results from predictable use of that infrastructure.
It's intentionally a bit provocative. We need to treat unsafe infrastructure and the resulting deaths and injuries as the fault of the people who are responsible for designing, building and maintaining that infrastructure. That is the attitude that will result in improvements to infrastructure rather than treating predictable outcomes as 'accidents'.
In this case, the city allows contractors to get away with putting bins in cycling lanes, otherwise it would not have occurred.
It's intentionally a bit provocative. We need to treat unsafe infrastructure and the resulting deaths and injuries as the fault of the people who are responsible for designing, building and maintaining that infrastructure. That is the attitude that will result in improvements to infrastructure rather than treating predictable outcomes as 'accidents'.
In this case, the city allows contractors to get away with putting bins in cycling lanes, otherwise it would not have occurred.
Northern Light
Superstar
Are developers responsible for homelessness?
Maybe......I mean, bad, unaffordable housing design, ownership over rental, selling to investors rather than end users?.....
Of course, you just bankrupted or jailed multiple UT'ers.............(not me) .............
There's a case to be made here.........but you're certainly stretching well beyond normative practice.
Is illegal use, of infrastructure, where expressly not permitted.........to be predicted?
Perhaps.......but is that a failing of design, or enforcement?
To the extend that it is the former? What responsibility lies with the politicians who wouldn't approve an arguably better design? To the extent those politicians are sincerely expressing the will of the community should each voter be liable?
I'm not necessarily saying no............but you're certainly opening up a very large can of worms.
By-law enforcement would be responsible for ensuring compliance here.
But how long was the bin here? Did anyone notify them through 311 or otherwise there was a problem?
If so, I'm willing to entertain an action based on staff not reading/responding to a complaint........in a timely way....
But I'm not sure I would expect a comparatively small staff to be aware of every contravention of the law in the City, in real time..............and to remedy it in same.