Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

[robmausser]

Golf is a slowly dying sport and I think you can at least make a case for hybrid uses of those areas with both some golf and the continuation of the trail systems.

Good podcast on this

A Good Walk Spoiled - Pushkin

Rich people and their addiction to golf: a philosophical investigation.

revisionisthistory.com

He talks about Toronto Golf courses.

The city owned ones youre actually allowed to bike through to continue on the trails. But golfers will yell at you and you might get hit by a ball, who wants that. Its less than ideal.

 

[Towered]

The elephant in the room are the private golf courses within the city. Wasn't there talk on this forum a while back that they don't pay property taxes due to some grandfathered privilege?

 

[Northern Light]

The importance of good separation/protection for bike lanes made evident, here:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1295448105878523904

 

[W. K. Lis]

So how are the bicycle repair hubs doing? Any get expanded out in the suburban anti-cyclist wards?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Because protected intersections will tick off the car loving councillors like Holyday, Ford, and Minnan-Wong. Because City Council is afraid to be bold and implement protected intersections.

Here's Dundas East, eastbound at Jones. Notice how the truck made the turn whilst keeping out of the bike zone. This intersection has exactly what all the separated bike lanes on Dundas need, just run the curb section to the intersection.

 

[afransen]

Yeah. God forbid we make drivers slow down before taking a right turn that crosses a traffic lane (for bikes). The curbs should extend up to the intersection.

Interesting video that discusses whether it might be better not to have painted bike lanes at all if they are not protected as it gives motorists too much comfort when passing.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Yeah. God forbid we make drivers slow down before taking a right turn that crosses a traffic lane (for bikes). The curbs should extend up to the intersection.

Interesting video that discusses whether it might be better not to have painted bike lanes at all if they are not protected as it gives motorists too much comfort when passing.

I wish the province or the city would mandate what a bike lane is, and IMO it can’t just be paint. In fact it should never just be paint. If there’s no protected, separated lane, then just leave the paint at the depot and we’ll cycle like we always have, in the curb alongside traffic.

But we need Toronto and MTO planners to share and use the data, have paint-only bike lanes saved any lives or made it safer to cycle this city?

 

[JasonParis]

I think there's a real point here that a normal traffic lane with bikes close to the curb is often actually safer than a painted bike lane with cars using it for free parking, etc. Either do it correctly or don't do it at all.

 

[ADRM]

I think there's a real point here that a normal traffic lane with bikes close to the curb is often actually safer than a painted bike lane with cars using it for free parking, etc. Either do it correctly or don't do it at all.

I can't find it on a quick search, but there was a study circulating a while back that showed that drivers typically pass cyclists much more closely if they're riding in an unprotected bike lane as opposed to in mixed traffic, and I'll say that certainly aligns with my anecdotal sense of things.

I pretty much always avoid the Davenport, College, and Bay bike lanes (to name a few) for exactly that reason; really, an important component of the City's near-term cycling network build-out should include upgrading all of the unprotected bike lanes with physical separation of one form or another. In places -- most notably where the paint-only lanes are also in the dooring zone -- that will be a bigger lift in terms of work and timeline, but there are quick wins to be had in many places (including filling the now-only unprotected gap in Bloor, between Sherbourne and the Viaduct, which is a total hellscape).

 

[Admiral Beez]

I can't find it on a quick search, but there was a study circulating a while back that showed that drivers typically pass cyclists much more closely if they're riding in an unprotected bike lane as opposed to in mixed traffic, and I'll say that certainly aligns with my anecdotal sense of things.

It makes sense. If there were originally two standard width lanes for cars that have now been narrowed so that a bike lane could be "painted" in, the curbside car lane is now narrower. This brings those cars closer to the bike lane. Meanwhile, as long as the car driver doesn't enter the painted bike lane he can drive as close to the line as he wants. The line is the allowance for the cyclist now, not the 1 meter clearance cyclists are supposed to be given by cars.

Now that I think of it, I do this myself, if I see a cyclist on an unmarked road I'll move well to the left to give them miles of clearance. But if the cyclist is in a marked bike lane I assume the width of the lane gives them the clearance they need, so while I make sure to not cross the lane demarking the bike lane, I don't move to the left to give the cyclist more space.

 

[afransen]

Yes. It makes it easy for drivers to be 'lazy' and not think of themselves as overtaking bikes (and the care required for that) but just driving in the next lane over. Bikes need to be separated or cars need to feel uncomfortable passing bikes.

 

[afransen]

Speaking of protected cycle paths, Mississauga has actually been doing a decent job adding cycling paths (though multi-use) separated from the road.

Here is an example on Winston Churchill. Intersections could still use some work.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

Intersection of WC and Britannia has bicycle signals, and painted intersection crossing, with protected bike path on Britannia crossing it.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

Winston Churchill has this protected bike path from Eglinton all the way to Argentia, about 7 km north/south. Britannia has a path from Ninth Line to Erin Mills, a gap through Streetsville, and then continues from Queen to Hurontario.

If Mississauga with its 0.4% cycling mode share can make investments like this, I think Toronto should be able to do something similar on suburban streets. For people who live close to work in Mississauga, commuting by bike on protected paths is getting pretty close to reality. And the city only aspires to have 2% cycling share in 2041. Should also make it easier to cycle to the GO stations (investments in secure/sheltered bike parking) etc.

 

[robmausser]

Speaking of protected cycle paths, Mississauga has actually been doing a decent job adding cycling paths (though multi-use) separated from the road.

Here is an example on Winston Churchill. Intersections could still use some work.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

Intersection of WC and Britannia has bicycle signals, and painted intersection crossing, with protected bike path on Britannia crossing it.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

Winston Churchill has this protected bike path from Eglinton all the way to Argentia, about 7 km north/south. Britannia has a path from Ninth Line to Erin Mills, a gap through Streetsville, and then continues from Queen to Hurontario.

If Mississauga with its 0.4% cycling mode share can make investments like this, I think Toronto should be able to do something similar on suburban streets. For people who live close to work in Mississauga, commuting by bike on protected paths is getting pretty close to reality. And the city only aspires to have 2% cycling share in 2041. Should also make it easier to cycle to the GO stations (investments in secure/sheltered bike parking) etc.

I hate this "multi-use" thing when there is a sidewalk literally next to it.

Trails in the ravines? Yes of course pedestrians too.

These things? Nah, should be wheeled devices only. Theres a sidewalk for pedestrians.

The amount of times ive almost hit someone on the Waterfront trail biking that are just meandering on the path... when there is a huge sidewalk next to it...

 

[afransen]

Agreed that the pedestrians should be separated. Not a lot of pedestrian activity in Mississauga on most streets. At least these are wide enough to pass people/cyclists. At any rate, it's a lot better than painted lanes on the street or sharrows. If there is enough cycling traffic to become a problem with pedestrians, maybe they would be widened to make a designated pedestrian path, but education is a bit of a battle. Green paint is one way to convey the dedicated bike space, but the coloured asphalt seems like a better/more durable solution as it won't be scraped off by plows.

 

[Northern Light]

That's great to see, but she's reaching by calling Centennial Park "amazing" - in all its giant sprawl, it doesn't even have a decent modern playground for kids. In that sense it's not in the same league as many much smaller downtown parks, and that should be corrected immediately with additions at several points in the park. Even sleepy Humbertown Park has a much better playground!

LOL, there's a new Masterplan for Centennial on its way.

Centennial Park Master Plan

The City of Toronto is embarking on a Master Plan Update for Centennial Park. This will guide any updated infrastructure and changes within the park over the next 20 years. Project Timeline November 2019 to February 2020 Laying the Groundwork: background research review of the 2008 Master Plan...

www.toronto.ca

New capital dollars are coming.

But before you go dissing it too hard............how many citiies do you think have any parks with this facility list:

Its also 212ha or 525 acres which is more than 25% larger than High Park.

Its not sooo bad ya know.

Sometimes we take too many things in Toronto for granted.