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Crazy subway idea to serve Harbourfront

drum118

drum118

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SeanTrans said:
I think it is absolutely ridiculous that there needs to be an EA to narrow Queen's Quay. A traffic study and a final design consultation should be the only things required for something like this.

EAs should be reserved for new projects or significant expansions of existing infrastructure. Queen's Quay should have been exempt.
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You need an EA if you are going to move the ROW and the road around as well Closing off various entrance and relocating them. The only thing to remain the same is the distance between the face to face of buildings.

There is a lot of things been look at.

There will be a Public Open House for the Terms of Reference on Jan 10 at 6.30 for this EA. Subject to change as it was to be on Dec 11, but was change due to many issues still needed to be resolve by the team.

There are talks in various camps that the bottom end of the the subway be moved south with 3 new stations and scrap Union Subway station and the streetcar loop. I support this thinking.
 
I cant see that happening. Why would Canada's biggest Transit Hub not have a subway stop? Seems silly to me. There is merit to extending the subway further south, but there still needs to be a Union Station stop.
 
drum118 said:
There are talks in various camps that the bottom end of the the subway be moved south with 3 new stations and scrap Union Subway station and the streetcar loop. I support this thinking.
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With no money, plenty of underserviced areas calling for more transit, a need for a Union stop and the habourfront presently being serviced by LRT, I can't see this happening.
 
There are talks in various camps that the bottom end of the the subway be moved south with 3 new stations and scrap Union Subway station and the streetcar loop. I support this thinking.
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They are currently expanding Union. Can't see this happening either.
 
I too can't see it happening.

Drum seems to be referencing a old study, Metro Centre I believe, which would have moved the bottom of the "loop" south towards Harbourfont. New stations which would serve the Union area would be built at Yonge & Front and York & Front.
 
CDL.TO said:
I too can't see it happening.

Drum seems to be referencing a old study, Metro Centre I believe, which would have moved the bottom of the "loop" south towards Harbourfont. New stations which would serve the Union area would be built at Yonge & Front and York & Front.
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No, as I have not seen the study.

The bottom station would be where the new GTTA bus terminal is thinking of going. Yes for the other 2.

The Queens Quay and the Lake Shore LRT lines would stay on the surface and require no extra room or cost to service the new bus terminal/subway and Union station. Putting it underground under the bus terminal would see current TTC streetcar service remove from Queens Quay which would make a lot of NIMBY happy that live on this street.

It is my understanding, less than 30% of GO riders use TTC in the first place. Walking to any of the new stations will be shorter or longer depending where you are on the train as well what subway station you want. No more than 2 minutes longer walk.

The current Union Loop will never handle the forecast ridership even under the new TTC plan to expand it. The new Union redevelopment plans just kill part of TTC plan.

With all the the projects under construction as well plan ones, a Harbour Station would open up a new market for new riders as well service a under service area.

Even the current Union Station subway upgrade will never handle the ridership within 20 years or less.

As for cost to do this, it can be found, but need to put the plan on the table now.
 
It's not happening.

I find the idea of building a replacement subway alignment to serve a poorly-located bus terminal to be a horrible idea. Though it would give Toronto a true abandoned subway station if Union is by-passed!
 
drum118 said:
There are talks in various camps that the bottom end of the the subway be moved south with 3 new stations and scrap Union Subway station and the streetcar loop.
Click to expand...

Pigs will fly before this ever happens. I'm really curious which "camps" you're referring to.
 
The only way I could maybe imagine it is if it were the start of the DRL and it veered both east and west from the bus terminal, with both ends going through (and stopping at) Union. However, talk of this hasn't been on the radar in a generation at best.
 
This was a plan that underwent detailed examination in the Metro Centre area. Different options included both lines merging and terminating at a single station in the Metro Centre area, as well as simply extending the loop south. Union Station would still be well-served by a station at York and Front, which might actually help by equalizing traffic between the East GO Concourse with the best PATH links, and the West GO Concourse which would then be served by the subway.

The disadvantages are substantial, including a drop in the number of people who would ride the subway "around the horn" to get to stations like King, potentially adding to crowding on Yonge. It would be ridiculous to do it without going all the way to Queens Quay, though in that case it's not an entirely terrible idea. A downtown relief line would cost about as much and be far more useful.
 
There certainly is something to be said for having a transfer-less subway link to the waterfront as a way of opening it up. Why not have both a stop at Union and at the waterfront? You could have half the trains travelling all the way to the waterfront, and the rest bypassing to stop at Union. It's pretty off the wall but it could work, especially now that we have the Moveontario funding for rapid transit projects. It would serve a lot of the customer base that currently uses Union, thus freeing up a lot of the space; and it would serve the new bus terminal well. It would bridge the railway/Gardiner gap quite gracefully, and it wouldn't be too expensive with provincial/federal funding. But perhaps there are higher priorities for the TTC; ie. extremely urgent matters, ie. the Queen streetcar?
 
On the subject of a Yonge relief line, are the logistics and costs prohibitive to consider a Yonge express line under the existing Yonge subway? Say, begin at Union, stops at (example), King, Queen, Dundas, Bloor, St. Clair, Eglinton. I'm thinking out loud here. Perhaps even a private venture where a premium would be paid like the Hwy. 407 ETR?
 
It's not a bad idea, but likely one for the more distant future. A downtown relief line would be a better way to relieve Yonge line congestion, serve new riders, and reduce travel times.
 
A Yonge Express line would do wonders for this city. Imagine a high speed subway beginning in Richmond Hill with stops at Highway 7, Shepherd, Eglinton, Bloor, Union Station and terminating under Harbour Square. (Opening the possibility of an eventual terminus under, yep, Toronto Island.) Sure it would cost 7 or 8 billion but it would be the best investment this city ever made.

Next step: The Eglinton/Midtown Xpress from Pearson to Pickering.
 
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