Corktown District Phase 2 (Streetcar, 8s, Quadrangle)

[cdr108]

Well that sounds like a material change if there ever was one.
Wouldn't that allow you the option of cancelling the contract, if you wished, and get your deposit back?

Maybe it all depends on when you purchased and the appreciation 'on paper' you would forgo.

Good luck to you!

 

[TKTKTK]

This thread might be of help: http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=744&page=9

 

[maestro]

Wouldn't that allow you the option of cancelling the contract, if you wished, and get your deposit back?

I don't think that's at question.


Unfortunately, this is one of those risks that can occur when you put down a deposit on pre-built - especially with a developer of such limited experience

 

[Mike in TO]

Streetcar had a lot of difficulties gaining approvals with the city regarding this development. Unfortunately I don't have the results of the negotiations and ultimate approval at my fingertips, but I suspect that it the major reason behind major changes to the development.

 

[interchange42]

One would think that changes from a voluntary Design Review Panel would not be major that 2 bedroom units were suddenly becoming 1 bedroom units. No developer wants to raise the hackles of its customers unless they are forced to.

Earlier phases of Corktown went before the OMB - so, did this one too? We have no news on that, but there are articles posted to this forum (other Corktown threads) stating that in general the Streetcar Developments buildings were being proposed at twice the height allowed under current zoning regulations. Was this building substantially scale back in size by either the City or the OMB?

Either way, losing a bedroom from your unit would constitute a material change that should void your contract. Take this to your lawyer!

42

 

[scrappyTO]

With Cresford, the reduction in ceiling height from 9 to 8 feet constituted a material change which allowed us out of our contract, so definitely this would be a material change too.

 

[queenwestres]

They are offering to let us out of the deal, but the point from our perspective is, we are losing an investment that it seems we have already made about $30,000 on in one year. They have hiked the prices so much in the building that we can't even change to a comparable unit anymore without paying quite a lot more. We are definitely going to try to fight to switch to a two bed, two bath unit at the same price per sq ft we originally paid, but their offer is not anything close to that. I have contacted my lawyer. Basically one year later, we can't get into the same building and get a similar unit for the price anymore, so we're being squeezed out of the market unfairly to someone who will pay more. They will make a lot more money off all the people who back out because they've raised all the prices. It doesn't sound right...we'll see what the lawyer says. Worst case I'm hoping to get my money back at the new price per square foot so we can get back into the market at the new prices we're seeing in 2008.

 

[queenwestres]

One would think that changes from a voluntary Design Review Panel would not be major that 2 bedroom units were suddenly becoming 1 bedroom units. No developer wants to raise the hackles of its customers unless they are forced to.

Earlier phases of Corktown went before the OMB - so, did this one too? We have no news on that, but there are articles posted to this forum (other Corktown threads) stating that in general the Streetcar Developments buildings were being proposed at twice the height allowed under current zoning regulations. Was this building substantially scale back in size by either the City or the OMB?

Either way, losing a bedroom from your unit would constitute a material change that should void your contract. Take this to your lawyer!

42

Check this out posted on another thread on this site:
date: 8/14/08

Hello everyone,

Sam here from Streetcar, just wanting to clarify any confusion over the OMB decision.

First, we are of course very pleased with the decision; we worked at length with the community to devise the best development proposal possible, and we are very excited about our final plans. With the OMB decision now published, we are happy to close this chapter.

Allow me to clarify that this project was appealed to the OMB not by the City or the community, but by Streetcar itself. We did this in order to escalate the re-zoning process, and it’s worth mentioning that the City appeared at the hearing in support of our development.

As for the final order being withheld, this was done at our request to provide us with the flexibility to make any additional zoning changes if needed. The site plan is a completely separate matter and is currently in final circulation with the City.

The matter before the Board has been resolved and is final. It is in no way impeding us proceeding with construction.

As some of you have likely noticed, demolition is already well underway, and now it’s full speed ahead on getting Corktown District built and occupied.

If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me at corktowndistrict@streetcar.ca.

 

[cdr108]

They are offering to let us out of the deal, but the point from our perspective is, we are losing an investment that it seems we have already made about $30,000 on in one year. They have hiked the prices so much in the building that we can't even change to a comparable unit anymore without paying quite a lot more. We are definitely going to try to fight to switch to a two bed, two bath unit at the same price per sq ft we originally paid, but their offer is not anything close to that. I have contacted my lawyer. Basically one year later, we can't get into the same building and get a similar unit for the price anymore, so we're being squeezed out of the market unfairly to someone who will pay more. They will make a lot more money off all the people who back out because they've raised all the prices. It doesn't sound right...we'll see what the lawyer says. Worst case I'm hoping to get my money back at the new price per square foot so we can get back into the market at the new prices we're seeing in 2008.

You've made $$$ on paper but unless you are able to sell it, you haven't.
I feel for you but IMO I'd take the deposit back and run.

It doesn't sound like you planned on living there, more of a flip.
The market is turning - thank your lucky stars b/c by the time this project gets completed the boom will have ended.

 

[Solaris]

They are offering to let us out of the deal, but the point from our perspective is, we are losing an investment that it seems we have already made about $30,000 on in one year. They have hiked the prices so much in the building that we can't even change to a comparable unit anymore without paying quite a lot more. We are definitely going to try to fight to switch to a two bed, two bath unit at the same price per sq ft we originally paid, but their offer is not anything close to that. I have contacted my lawyer. Basically one year later, we can't get into the same building and get a similar unit for the price anymore, so we're being squeezed out of the market unfairly to someone who will pay more. They will make a lot more money off all the people who back out because they've raised all the prices. It doesn't sound right...we'll see what the lawyer says. Worst case I'm hoping to get my money back at the new price per square foot so we can get back into the market at the new prices we're seeing in 2008.

unforunately whatever capital gain made on the unit during pre-construction is to the benefit of the vendor/builder, like cdr108 said you've made $$$ on paper but will not be able to materialize it until actually you close + own the property (which from the sounds of things that 'unit' you purchased no longer exist) ... the best you can hope for is good faith/gesture from Streetcar to allow you to switch to another unit at the same per sq.ft. cost as 1 year ago (which I doubt they would do) ... but if you are not planning to live there yourself, don't bother with this hassle and take your money elsewhere

I sorta doubt Streetcar will give your money back based on the current per sq.ft. cost ... its unreasonable to ask for either 'let me buy a larger unit at the 2007 prices' or 'pay me back based on the 2008 prices', it would be contridictory IMO

 

[interchange42]

Check this out posted on another thread on this site:
date: 8/14/08

Hello everyone,

<snip>

Allow me to clarify that this project was appealed to the OMB not by the City or the community, but by Streetcar itself. We did this in order to escalate the re-zoning process, and it’s worth mentioning that the City appeared at the hearing in support of our development.

<snip>

Queenwestres: That letter reffered to Phase 1 of Corktown. The question is 'what has been going on with Phase 2'?

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[grt]

Streetcar Buyer Fan

While I can appreciate that people might be upset that their units got downsized under the Corktown Phase II re-design, it is important to understand how the process happened. At the outset I can say that as a buyer in the phase II, I have only had positive experience with the developer.

The design review panel is an initiative of city planning department. It advises the zoning process for developments in emerging neighborhoods. It is charged with overseeing that high quality design happens and how it will impact a surrounding neighborhood. How do I know all this? From googling and reading on the City of Toronto site. In fact the whole design review panel report is online.

Hence Streetcar redesigned the building so that zoning could move forward. If they had not done that, the building would not get approved at all for being built and all 180 buyers would be without a condo. Instead, they were very timely about redesigning the building to meet the requirements of this panel, which in turn will speed up zoning.

As with any process in life, the good of the whole often means a few people end up unhappy. On the flip side, the majority should be happy the building will get built faster now.

In my case, while my unit changed a bit, including a smaller bedroom, there were other improvements. And overall, I think the exterior of the building is much more attractive.

While I would be upset if my 2bedroom got cut in half, its important not to turn that into villainizing a good developer. They have a great track record. And, as a smaller developer, they are more than flexible with individual owners. I have only had positive interactions with them. They deliver on whatever is in their control. The design review panel is out of their control. However, they did take control to redesign the building quickly so that the place will actually get built. And for the majority, I suspect, this is good news.

Streetcar is great. And for those who stick with the building its going to be a great investment. I thought it would be important to write this because, as is often the case, it is usually the unhappy people to blog. I for one have been very happy and have no doubts I will continue to be, with this exciting development in a great emerging neighbourhood.

Cheers! that the development and zoning will move fast now!

 

[Solaris]

Old vs New

compiled some images to illustrate the change in building design ... all in all the old proposal was pretty good looking and fitting to the semi-industrial history of the area ... the new one is nice as well, it is clear from the revised design the City wanted the masssing/bulk of the structure reduced and introduced a lot more terrracing on the building

old ....... vs ....... new

old ....... vs ....... new

old ....... vs ....... new

.................................................................................................................... new

..................................................................................................................... new

 

[marcus_a_j]

I definitely like the new one more

 

[cdr108]

The new design has more of a visual impact with the different lighter coloured base and prominent gray frame-like effect.