Climate Change & Toronto

[TOperson]

But how do these examples have any physical impact on Toronto?

I didn't say they did. I was making the point that a climate crisis that affects Toronto could very well affect other parts of Ontario, which could strain the government response. What's more - that is what I actually said. You read it, so you should know that, and not act like I was saying something else.

 

[nfitz]

I didn't say they did. I was making the point that a climate crisis that affects Toronto could very well affect other parts of Ontario, which could strain the government response.

What type of event do you anticipate? I can't imagine anything much worse than the Montreal icestorm - but even that hasn't had the long-term regional effects of a Katrina-type event.

 

[junior43]

Seriously. Katrina didn't just hit New Orleans, Sandy didn't just hit New York. This is a thread about climate change. It's entirely possible and even likely that if Toronto was having a climate crisis, so would other parts of Ontario.

I don't know how you can separate the Superdome mess from the overall response to Katrina, but the bussing was a mess too. See Spike Lee's documentaries about Katrina. They have some info on this.

Give up on the Katrina diatribe. Yes, they screwed up big time. What's your point? I only brought it up for the example of moving people around the area so other cities can offer aid as well.

So now you're ever expanding crises involves multiple sites in Ontario - and somehow Toronto isn't the priority which means there must be areas far worse off than us - and you still expect the Government to save your butt and feed and water you?

Basically, at what point are you going to start relying on yourself for your own safety, or do you expect the government to always come save you in a timely manner?

For the scale of natural disaster you're bringing up, no government could plan for - or pull off - a rescue of each and every person.

 

[GenerationW]

This is a thread about climate change.

Seems more like a thread about you.

 

[khris]

Agreed. Digging the Don deeper will make little difference, as you are right near the lake. There's little elevation difference along there already.

These days, you avoid building in floodplains, but if you do, infrastructure like highways is relatively good, as the impact is short-term, leaving little (if any) permanent damage. However there is a bit that does seem to flood too frequently, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to elevate it by a metre or so. I doubt few would notice once it's complete.

Actually ya, now that I think about it, you're right. The highway should be raised a bit. Won't take all that much either.

 

[TOperson]

Give up on the Katrina diatribe. Yes, they screwed up big time. What's your point? I only brought it up for the example of moving people around the area so other cities can offer aid as well.

So now you're ever expanding crises involves multiple sites in Ontario - and somehow Toronto isn't the priority which means there must be areas far worse off than us - and you still expect the Government to save your butt and feed and water you?

Basically, at what point are you going to start relying on yourself for your own safety, or do you expect the government to always come save you in a timely manner?

For the scale of natural disaster you're bringing up, no government could plan for - or pull off - a rescue of each and every person.

A few posts ago I said this:

And I don't think "let's wait until SHTF, and let the government take care of it" is a good plan.

You are the one who said the Red Cross and the army would provide assistance. So when are you going to start relying on yourself?

Also, re: the multiple sites in Ontario, climate and weather do not care about municipal boundaries. There is no natural law that says an extreme weather event must only happen in one place at a time. Perhaps you've noticed that the US drought has crossed multiple state lines. So did Sandy.

 

[TOperson]

What type of event do you anticipate? I can't imagine anything much worse than the Montreal icestorm - but even that hasn't had the long-term regional effects of a Katrina-type event.

That says more about your imagination than the climate.

A variety of scenarios are possible but mostly what I think about is extreme weather that just lasts and lasts and lasts. So it's not a matter of waiting a few days until it's all over. What if we got a storm like yesterday 3-4 times a week for six weeks?

 

[nfitz]

That says more about your imagination than the climate.

I don't see the need for insults. Please be civil.

A variety of scenarios are possible but mostly what I think about is extreme weather that just lasts and lasts and lasts. So it's not a matter of waiting a few days until it's all over. What if we got a storm like yesterday 3-4 times a week for six weeks?

Why do you think that's a possibility? The experts are predicting that Toronto will have a similar number, or fewer storm events, but with greater intensity. To go from a storm like yesterday once in many years, to 18 a year doesn't seem realistic in my mind.

 

[TOperson]

I don't see the need for insults. Please be civil.

Why do you think that's a possibility? The experts are predicting that Toronto will have a similar number, or fewer storm events, but with greater intensity. To go from a storm like yesterday once in many years, to 18 a year doesn't seem realistic in my mind.

The climate doesn't care if you find it realistic or not. Are these the same experts who failed to predict yesterday's storm? I just watched the CityNews weather person talk about the inadequacy of yesterday's advisories.

Anyway, lots of climate experts also say that it's a crap shoot as far as predicting exactly what will happen, especially in a precise location. So why rule anything out? That said, they did predict more extreme weather events, and here we are.

 

[spider]

You Global warning Jeremiahs do understand that Greenland supported dairy farms 600+/- years ago don't you?

On a more local note, I lived in the late 1940's on the brow of the Don Valley at Beechwood drive well before the DVP was built and the valley was exposed to as much scrutiny as it is today and let me tell you the Don flooded every spring well beyond what you see today. Some years the total valley floor was wall to wall water, the tracks inundated.

If Global warming means that the Toronto weather will resemble that currently enjoyed by the American south I am disappointed that I will probably not live to enjoy it.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What annoys me is how we often focus on the negatives of any claimed climate change. Flash floods aside, a changing climate has real benefits for Canada. Strong rains will help keep our vast store of fresh water, warmer winters means a longer growing season and potential new shipping and commerce opportunities in Arctic and Hudson's Bay areas.

Why do we always focus on the negatives of climate change?

 

[junior43]

A few posts ago I said this:

And I don't think "let's wait until SHTF, and let the government take care of it" is a good plan.

You are the one who said the Red Cross and the army would provide assistance. So when are you going to start relying on yourself?

Also, re: the multiple sites in Ontario, climate and weather do not care about municipal boundaries. There is no natural law that says an extreme weather event must only happen in one place at a time. Perhaps you've noticed that the US drought has crossed multiple state lines. So did Sandy.

I was only saying the part about army and Red Cross to make you feel better:

I confess I'm not really sure what to do either. E.g. if the power goes out in my building, the pumps don't work so I can't get water to my 16th floor apartment. I haven't even thought about how I would get water during a prolonged blackout. But I should.

How can someone spend so much time thinking about how big and bad a natural disaster could possibly be in Toronto, and also reviewed Sandy and Katrina's devastation, yet you haven't even had the forethought to prepare yourself?

The general rule for natural disasters, is to store enough food and water for 3-4 days. It's assumed some version of a rescue can get to you by then or power's back on etc. Katrina disproved that theory. What I got from that was, don't rely on Government. It appears all you got out of it was a really good documentary to watch.

I'm ready to last two weeks on stored food and water, a generator and even a kayak if you want to leap straight to Waterworld type scenarios. Sounds like I'm the one with the plan and won't need to rely on the Army and Red Cross compared to you.

I only replied to that post about you confessing you don't know what to do in this type of event to help you out. Obviously, you don't want my help.

 

[k10ery]

Is it troll bait when it's backed up by thousands of research scientists?

http://www.tyndall.ac.uk
http://www.climate.gov
http://www.climateontario.ca

I meant it would attract trolls - not that it was itself trolling.

A quick scroll through the thread suggests I wasn't wrong...

 

[nfitz]

Are these the same experts who failed to predict yesterday's storm?

Is that some kind of joke? Surely you don't think those that are working on long-term climate change are those that forecast the evening forecast!!

 

[khris]

Isn't climate always changing?