H
Hydrogen
Guest
Hope they lay off the grey panelling after this.
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Toronto CityPlace: Montage + Neo (Concord Adex, 47 + 16s, KPMB)
grey
Senior Member
March 21
Wow, commie block.
MisterF
Senior Member
Thanks! My tribute to one of the best sitcoms of all time. And yes, I know what MRF ended up standing for
urbandreamer, if you want a black cat you should have no trouble finding one. There are a couple really nice ones at the Port Hope humane society that have been there for almost a year.
Mongo
Senior Member
Huh? Just because a building is rectangular does not make it a "commie block". True commie blocks were noted for their poor construction and cooky-cutter design, neither of which applies to this building. Here are some genuine "commie blocks" from Warsaw:
Bill
urbanboyto
Active Member
To echo the sentiments about the street and sidewalk treatment at CityPlace, I feel the city missed a huge opportunity here. Concord Pacific has done a magnificent job in Vancouver job of adding excellent ground treatment though plants, trees, fountains, sidewalks, street furniture and proper density for the water front. I know that much of this has to do with Vancouver's design panel which engaged in a series of density-based tradeoffs to achieve this. I would not advocate for an identical treatment here as Toronto is a far more urban city. I think the CityPlace development, in which I think the towers are largely successful and of high quality, would have benefitted greatly from a much grittier, denser treatment of the surrounding area. an extension of the grid, smaller blocks and many more townhouses, and small retail spaces while retaining the tall condo towers. This would have been an extension of the neighbourhood to the north of it. In Vancouver they did this by aligning with the grittier Yaletown neighbourhood, with lots of brick close to it, then more glass as you approach the waterfront. Unfortunately right now CityPlace looks like a lot of glittering condo towers in a landscape of anonymous emptiness.
grey
Senior Member
Monotonous textures and colours, nearly identical design elements, cold, lifeless, imposing street presence. Luna will be more of the same. The rectangular thing was entirely your idea -- thanks for that. I'm looking forward to the park, which should make it look a lot less dreary, at least from the opposite side.
3Dementia
Senior Member
I think Luna and Parade will be more success than previous phases. Unlike Montage, there appears to be no desire to waste the Bremner streetwall with an amenity building.
lxmoss
Active Member
The only good thing is the increase in pedestrian traffic in the area. But this building looks like it needs a facelift and it isn't even finished construction yet.
marcus_a_j
Senior Member
I think you make some good points. The way Concord integrated Concord Pacific with the waterfront and Yaletown was done appropriately and was a result of Design Review Panel and also a stronger planning department. Both developments are in difficult locations, but Toronto's is more difficult. It's harder to introduce the street grid into Cityplace due to such constraints as the rail corridor and Gardiner/Lake Shore. The number of streets that can be extended north-south are very few. On the east side of Spadina there are no north-south street extensions possible. The only change I would have made would be extend Marriner Terrace east to the bus parking driveway instead of a cul-de-sac. On the west side of Spadina there was a greater potential to have more of a grid system, but number of connections are still minimal. Dan Lackie Way is being extended north from Lake Shore to Bremner. There should have been at least two railway crossings, at Draper and Portland Sts. and maybe another east of Draper. There are the plans for the Portland St. extension, albeit only pedestrian/cycling.
The main problem with CP is how the buildings meet the street, not so much benches, trees, etc. (but still could have been improved). In Vancouver the building podiums are properly scaled and contain the right types of land uses. Here, it's all small retail units with no architectural detail (the retail along Bremner part of HVE is ok). The biggest mess is Optima. Being right beside the Dome you would expect it to respect the pedestrian environment a little bit. I would even take the podiums along Apex and Matrix. A restaurant or coffee shop opening up onto the little square on the southside would have been a tremendous success. We'll see what happens when Signature gets built, but I'm doubtful that it will contribute much unless the City pushes hard for more appropriate podiums and retail spaces (please no townhouses along Bremner and Navy Wharf).
I'm still optimistic about the west side. It's hard to tell what will happen but given the amount effort the City has put into the urban design from what i've seen there is potential, it's just way too early to tell.
adma
Superstar
Honestly, that looks more humane than the megascraper part of Dubai...Huh? Just because a building is rectangular does not make it a "commie block". True commie blocks were noted for their poor construction and cooky-cutter design, neither of which applies to this building. Here are some genuine "commie blocks" from Warsaw:
Bill
marcus_a_j
Senior Member
It does, there is actually trees and green space.
adma
Superstar
Basically, a more cookie-cutter rendition of Church & Wellesley. (And you can see why Plattenbauten are funky in East Berlin?)
Jdot
Active Member
There just couldnt be an extension of the grid pattern in CityPlace. We have already seen the problem with getting just a little pedestrian bridge over the rail tracks. Getting more than one, and making them vehicle bridges would be so much harder (boo on GO and CN Rail). Concord has done as best as it could connecting Fort York blvd right through, and including Dan Lekie Way which will exit onto Lakeshore. More southern connections just wouldnt work under the Gardiner as basically that entire stretch is an exit ramp from the Gardiner to Spadina.
officedweller
Senior Member
CityPlace hasn't hit critical mass yet - wait until the supermarket opens up.
adma
Superstar
...and once said supermarket gets demoted to No Frills/Price Chopper/Food Basics, you just *know* Cityplace is on the road to St. Jamestowndom
[though I'd be more likely to shop there then, not less]
[though I'd be more likely to shop there then, not less]