Cities scramble to qualify for infrastructure funding

[taal]

Stupid question here but:

When I look at office market reports for the GTA - The GTA West, typically has the lowest vacany rates outside of downtown - more specifically, the airport west area (funny enough, airport east (Toronto), has one of the highest - shows you how much tax impacts business choices) ... anyway, I see figures around 4 - 5 % - MCC is around 7-8% or so from what I recall - where does this 11% figure come from? I understand the 10% for Toronto though, sounds about right.

Also, does the 11/10% vacancy includes sublease space i.e. is it 11/10% of the available office inventory is sitting empty (although some of it might be being rented) or is that just the empty not rented space (i.e no sublease).

 

[EnviroTO]

more specifically, the airport west area (funny enough, airport east (Toronto), has one of the highest - shows you how much tax impacts business choices)

I thought Mississauga still had lower business property tax rates and higher residential than Toronto and Toronto is slowly moving to correct this year by year.

 

[taal]

I thought Mississauga still had lower business property tax rates and higher residential than Toronto and Toronto is slowly moving to correct this year by year.

Yes that's right ... very very slowly Toronto is moving to change ... one should note that change likely does not equal lowering business tax, simply not increasing it as much while increasing residential tax more quickly - eventually they'll more closely match what you see in the suburbs..

 

[TOareaFan]

Stupid question here but:

When I look at office market reports for the GTA - The GTA West, typically has the lowest vacany rates outside of downtown - more specifically, the airport west area (funny enough, airport east (Toronto), has one of the highest - shows you how much tax impacts business choices) ... anyway, I see figures around 4 - 5 % - MCC is around 7-8% or so from what I recall - where does this 11% figure come from? I understand the 10% for Toronto though, sounds about right.

Also, does the 11/10% vacancy includes sublease space i.e. is it 11/10% of the available office inventory is sitting empty (although some of it might be being rented) or is that just the empty not rented space (i.e no sublease).

I think he said unemployment was 11% not vacancy.....and, I think, it was a Peel number not specifically a Mississauga number.

 

[doady]

I've always thought that office vacancy in MCC is around 20%. I've never seen it reported anywhere near as low as 7%.
The current office vacancy in MCC is 16%.

 

[taal]

I've always thought that office vacancy in MCC is around 20%. I've never seen it reported anywhere near as low as 7%.
The current office vacancy in MCC is 16%.

What?? Where do you see any evidence of that - I know the 4-5% is only around the airport and it's a bit higher around MCC - but I thought it was all under %10.

 

[taal]

I think he said unemployment was 11% not vacancy.....and, I think, it was a Peel number not specifically a Mississauga number.

Yep, but you'd be surprised - numbers in the rest of Peel aren't that high from what I recall.

 

[TOareaFan]

Yep, but you'd be surprised - numbers in the rest of Peel aren't that high from what I recall.

I think you are still talking vacancy while the original post is talking about unemployment.....I think.

On your vacancy idea....the rest of Peel is really Brampton and it used to have horrible office vacancy rates while Nortel was trying to lease out the Dixie campus.....once they shifted gears and sold it and that +/- 1 million s.f. complex came off the market the numbers shifted much lower.

 

[taal]

Yep your right, sorry about that.

The unemployment rate is definitely higher - Mississauga historically has had one of the highest unemployment rates in the country (for that size of a city, but it's not a very fair comparison) - The vacancy rate, on the other hand, is relatively low i think but for an area like Mississauga those doesn't necessarily correspond.

 

[lordmandeep]

Well I read I think the Toronto Star about a few weeks back and had a short story on the Chrysler Plant and the City of Brampton and it said the unemployment rate in the region of Peel is 10.7%. I then saw that number again in a Brampton Guardian article.

Of course things are not bleak like in Windsor. You still see a ton of thriving business and tons of money around. I doubt the rate is anywhere that high for lets say a lot of the older residents of the area. There are a ton of people (mostly new immigrants) who have lost their low wage manufacturing warehousing jobs recently that work small temporary cash jobs. Things should vastly improve once the economy picks up but I must say the rate of sprawl has slowed down dramatically. I know see very few new houses being built out here in Brampton. Maybe down 80-90% from the boom times around 2002-2005.

I notice though that Ottawa and Quebec City have rather strong local economies. Went to Quebec City in June and everything seems well, many homes and businesses being built and asked some people we know there and they say things have been always good here.

 

[taal]

Definitely true for Ottawa ... but that's not a surprise, it's always been the case - Government spending typically leads to new government jobs in some form or an another - Ottawa is very much sheltered from the typical ups and downs due to this.

I think the key thing about Mississauga though - unlike other cities, vacancy rates and unemployment don't correspond at all - as you said there are a lot of new immigrants (and old) and that tends to skew the figures but there's a labor force throughout the GTA to fill all the current and new office buildings being built in Mississauga.

Something else that might contribute here - you'd think Toronto would have a higher unemployment rate due to homeless / very poor in the city (compared to Mississauga) but there's a good chance they don't contribute to the unemployment rate as by definition you need to be actively looking for a job to be included.

 

[lordmandeep]

So anyone know the reason why then Quebec City has one of the most healthiest economies East of Manitoba...

 

[kEiThZ]

So anyone know the reason why then Quebec City has one of the most healthiest economies East of Manitoba...

Government spending and tourism.

 

[lordmandeep]

Yeah the highway infrastructure of Quebec City is rather complicated for a area of only 700+ people.

There are like 6 highways in and around the city...


Yeah If I did not have to learn French, I would move there easily.

I really like the lay backed attitude and you still have access to so much vibrancy and culture,

 

[nfitz]

It's also surprisingly provincial, and from what some Quebecois who have been working there recently have told me, amazingly racist (which goes to explain some of the rather bizarre MPs they've elected).