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Change bike laws

Wow. The anti-cyclist virtol is at surprisingly high levels for a supposed "Urban Toronto" forum.

I say that ambulances and fire trucks should obey all traffic laws, even when responding to an emergency. The rules are fine for one group of vehicles, so they should be fine for all.
 
Wow. The anti-cyclist virtol is at surprisingly high levels for a supposed "Urban Toronto" forum.

I say that ambulances and fire trucks should obey all traffic laws, even when responding to an emergency. The rules are fine for one group of vehicles, so they should be fine for all.


Sure, and maybe cyclists can only come out in emergencies.
 
I wonder if the moral from all this is that commuting by cycling is far more stressful than commuting by driving (leading to some very nasty cyclists).

I don't think you could be more right.

It is a game of survival for the cyclists, I still wonder if that lady who clipped me last week talking on her cell even realizes she knocked me off my bike.
 
Hey there Urban Toronto People. First post, woo!

@ Lone Primate. As a cyclist, the thought of getting insurance for bicycle anywhere in North America sees laughable however, you do have a point. If you needed a license to drive a bicycle on the street, cyclists in general would be better drivers. The reverse is the same for car drivers, many just don't know how to deal with cyclists on the road.

Having very long legs, the height that I need to have my seat (about 3.5 feet) in order to garner any sort of efficient pedalling cycle makes having to dismount entirely counter-productive. I always slow down when I come to a stop sign, and I always yield to whoever has the right of way. That's just common courtesy. But If I can avoid coming to a complete stop, I do, usually by providing a lot of space so i can provide the minimum amount of momentum the keep the bike upright. But if I have to, especially at stoplights, I stop. To run through a red light in some parts is completely suicidal.

Bicyclists also endure much more stress than the average driver, especially when being passed in the same lane with about 3 inches of clearance by eager SUV owners who want to beat you to the red light, or even worse, garbage trucks.

I'm in agreeance that more bike lanes are needed on busy corridors, or alternate bike routes need to be provided on parallel sidesteets. The less bicycles have to operate with motor vehicle traffic, the better.

There are a lot of stupid cyclists out there however. (Riding at night without lamps in a bike line opposing the direction of traffic, weaving between lanes of traffic without signalling, ect.) I am in no way defending them.

In general, drivers just need to use common sense, have patience, and be courteous other drivers. This is often as simple as making eye contact. Both cyclist and driver acknowledge the other as human. And for those who don't like to follow rules, there's always the law. Changing it would just be a waste of time and resources.
 
I say that ambulances and fire trucks should obey all traffic laws, even when responding to an emergency. The rules are fine for one group of vehicles, so they should be fine for all.

The minute cyclists are only racing through intersections, zooming the wrong way up one-way streets, and changing their internal designation from street vehicle to pedestrian-on-round-legs to use the sidewalks, all so they can rush to pull someone from a burning condo or restart someone's heart, I'll be all for them skirting the rules. Till then, they should follow the rules that are established for us all. I'd be a lot more comfortable with bikes on the streets if I knew they weren't going to use their agility to pull a fast one the first chance they get, all the while demanding that _I_ be on the defensive for it as though their safety were primarily my responsibility and none of their own.
 
I'm in agreeance that more bike lanes are needed on busy corridors, or alternate bike routes need to be provided on parallel sidesteets. The less bicycles have to operate with motor vehicle traffic, the better.

I agree with this. Frankly, I really don't believe bikes belong on the busy thoroughfares. The difference in scale and speed and mass is just too great. But I wonder if it might be possible to close certain streets and roads to automobile traffic during certain hours and turn them over completely to bikes. It might work better in a city like Mississauga where few homes actually front onto the main thoroughfares; it would be trickier here where people would still need to get in and out of their driveways because they actually live on those streets, but something could probably be worked out. Consider, for example, Bayview Avenue. It goes up and down between the burbs and downtown. What if it were reserved for bike traffic during weekday rush hours? Cross town, what about St. Clair, say? I don't know what would work best downtown. Otherwise, though, I'd suggest restricting mixed bike-car traffic to secondary streets, the likes of, say, Soudan south of Eglinton. Parallels it, but a lot less traffic. Less turns. Fewer doors flying open.
 
There are a lot of stupid cyclists out there however. (Riding at night without lamps in a bike line opposing the direction of traffic, weaving between lanes of traffic without signalling, ect.) I am in no way defending them.

In general, drivers just need to use common sense, have patience, and be courteous other drivers. This is often as simple as making eye contact. Both cyclist and driver acknowledge the other as human. And for those who don't like to follow rules, there's always the law. Changing it would just be a waste of time and resources.

Hey dunkalunk, awesome to have you on here. You are one of the few talking common sense, understanding the relationships that need to exist between all types of vehicles. I love what you said about acknowledging the other as a human. It reminds me of something I read on the Biking Toronto website that said, "A person on a $20 bike is equal to one in a $20000 car".
 
We all know most cyclists disregard the letter of the law because it’s really annoying to come to a full, unclipped stop at an empty intersection.

What, this isn't true for people in cars? I'll have to remember to point this out if I ever get pulled over. "Oh, officer, it's just so annoying to have to stop just because the sign says stop..."

I rarely make full stops no matter what type of vehicle I'm in/on. In a car this probably saves about one cent in gas per stop sign (which I admit isn't a lot, but neither is ~2 pedal cycles on a bike assuming 5mph). I do fully stop, however, when the intersection is blind-I propose that North America catches on with the rest of the world and gets rid of never-complied-to stop signs where they aren't needed (replacing them with yield signs) instead of allowing one type of vehicle to roll through all, including blind, intersections.
 
1. All those multiple stop signs along a side street also wastes gasoline for cars and trucks. They should be yield signs, instead.
2. The fine for not stopping a bicycle at a stop sign is $110, the same for not having a bell or horn. It is also the same fine for the driver who opened his car door that led to the bicyclist death. See Toronto Sun article.
 
I rarely make full stops no matter what type of vehicle I'm in/on. In a car this probably saves about one cent in gas per stop sign (which I admit isn't a lot, but neither is ~2 pedal cycles on a bike assuming 5mph). I do fully stop, however, when the intersection is blind-I propose that North America catches on with the rest of the world and gets rid of never-complied-to stop signs where they aren't needed (replacing them with yield signs) instead of allowing one type of vehicle to roll through all, including blind, intersections.
Yeah, I second that. In Europe, most of the time, one street at an intersection is designated as more major, and the other streets just have to stop. In the event of a equal priority, the car to the right is given priority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right

Ever notice how Europe does everything better?
 
If people aren't doing full stops now, with stop signs ... then I don't want to encourage them to just run through at high-speed by putting yields! We all know how the system works ... stop on a side street means slow down a lot, and make sure you are clear.
 
Time to call a halt to stop signs?

Toronto Star article:


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Several communities in Europe and the U.S. have removed signs, sidewalks, traffic lights. The result? A 40 per cent decline in pedestrian fatalities.​

Traffic signals and speed limits stop us thinking and so we drive less safely, prof says
Jim Kenzie

Special to the Star

Jul 05, 2008

The Atlantic Monthly is not a car magazine. It's all about politics, society, literature, the arts, general interest. Used to have short fiction and great cryptic crossword puzzles too. Sadly, both now gone.

I have been reading it cover-to-cover for, oh, I dunno, maybe 30 years, and every time I finish an article, I think to myself, "Yeah, I knew that.''

The pieces are always so well-written, the information seems lodged in your brain as if it was always there.

The Atlantic Monthly doesn't often have articles on automobiles, but when they do, they really nail it. A piece some years ago about futurist/environmentalist Amory Lovins and his "hypercars'' changed my entire way of thinking about the future of the automobile.

But I now have a new favourite writer. His name is John Staddon, and he is not, apparently, a car guy at all.

He's a professor of psychology and brain science at Duke University in North Carolina, and an honorary visiting professor at the University of York in England.

He has a story in the current (July/August) issue entitled "Distracting Miss Daisy," which I link to in my blog at Wheels.ca (thestar.blogs.com/kenzie/).

The secondary headline – the sentence right below the title – is, "Why stop signs and speed limits endanger Americans."

You just know I'm gonna love this guy.

Staddon rails about the proliferation of stop signs on American roads (virtually everything he writes about pertains to Canada too). Stop signs disrupt traffic flow, and harm the environment, what with unnecessary idling and stop-start driving.

Yet they don't make our roads any safer.

He reserves special condemnation for four-way stop signs. This plague has reached such proportions that many intersections that do not have four-way stops now add another sign: "Cross traffic does not stop.''

(That one always makes me wonder if good-natured traffic does stop.)

Staddon's point is that too many signs of all kinds not only distract drivers from actually looking at the road – sort of where you'd think they ought to be looking – but also cause drivers to adapt to the driving environment in "profoundly unhealthy ways.''

For instance, all those stop signs teach drivers to be less observant of the traffic flow – as long as they just obey the sign and stop, nothing else matters. If someone runs the stop sign in the crossing direction, it's their fault.

Yeah, but you're just as dead.

Staddon adds, "Speed limits in the U.S. are perhaps a more severe safety hazard than stop signs.''

No, really, I did not write this story.

He notes that speed limits on this side of the ocean are usually determined to reflect the worst possible conditions, yet are typically enforced in the best possible conditions, when higher speeds are indeed safe as church.

Which, of course, explains why said enforcement has nothing at all to do with traffic safety, as regular readers (except certain subsets of our police departments) know perfectly well.

Staddon says he is not necessarily suggesting a traffic free-for-all, although several communities in The Netherlands, England and even Florida (West Palm Beach) have done just that, with fantastic results – pedestrian casualties down by 40 per cent or more, for example.

Why? Because removing the signs, sidewalks, traffic lights, etc., forces drivers and pedestrians to take personal responsibility for their own safety.

Guess what? They do.

It's like I always say about raising children: You don't get the behaviour you demand; you get the behaviour you expect.

We expect our drivers to be stupid, and they seldom disappoint.

Expect them to be intelligent, and, surprise, surprise ...

Staddon recognizes that his proposals may be too dramatic for widespread adoption in North America. Instead, the England-raised professor (a brain scientist, remember) suggests we adopt just some of the U.K.'s policies, such as:

Replacing most stop signs with yields, indicated in England by a dotted line across the intersection. Note: painted on the road, where you're supposed to be looking, not off in the bushes somewhere, like so many stop signs.

Roundabouts instead of traffic lights (yay!). Even when installed in the U.S., roundabouts reduce collisions by about 40 per cent. (Why has there been a single conventional traffic-light intersection built here in the last 40 years? Why isn't somebody suing somebody?)

Realistic and consistent speed limits that reflect the type of road, rather than some local politicians' or police officers' whims.

Staddon has proffered these solutions to many audiences in the U.S, and usually gets the same response: "Couldn't be done here."

To which he replies, quite reasonably in my view, "Why not?''

He notes that they generally drive faster in England, on narrower, twistier, generally less-safe roads, in smaller, generally less-crash-proof cars.

Yet as of 2003, statistics show that per vehicle-mile travelled, fatalities are 36 per cent higher in the U.S. than in the U.K.

Thirty-six per cent!

Now, there are a few things Staddon doesn't mention that might influence these statistics, both positively and negatively.

First, seatbelt wearing rates in the U.S. remain stuck in the low-70 per cent range, while in England (and Canada) they run in the low- to mid-90 per cent range.

That alone should be enough to explain why we in Canada kill about 2,700 people on our roads each year versus over 40,000 in the U.S., when the numbers should be closer to the 10-times factor of our respective populations.

This probably explains a lot of the differential between the U.S. and the U.K. too.

Second, England is a more densely populated country than the U.S. (or Canada), and medical assistance may be more rapidly deployed there than here.

Trauma specialists refer to the "golden hour'' – if treatment doesn't begin within an hour of the impact, survival rates plummet. Emergency care might get to most traffic victims quicker there than here.

Third, is there something special about U.K. drivers?

Well, yes. They are vastly better trained and more stringently licenced than drivers over here. Which again, in my view, suggests another reason why their numbers are better than ours.

But is there anything inherent in British people that might make them better drivers? Does a steady diet of fish 'n' chips, chip butties and tea (or, more likely these days, curry) have an influence?

Not so's anybody's proven.

It's the old demand/expect thing again. The British expect their drivers to learn how to drive before getting a licence, and so they do.

Now, not much, if any, of this will be unfamiliar to regular readers, not even those aforementioned subsets of the police departments (I know you're out there).

I have been saying all of the above for most of my 25 years in this business.

But of course I am merely a speed-crazed car-freak lunatic (or so I have been characterized by some).

John Staddon is a professor, a brain scientist, and an expert on human adaptive behaviour, fer cryin' out loud.

And, he is writing in one of the most august publications in the world.

Maybe the powers-that-be will listen to him.
 
Forcing bicycles to comply to the same rules of the road as cars and setting that as the precedent is exactly what is causing all the problems and animosity between drivers and cyclists.

Really, road laws were set up exclusively for cars – and cyclists have been forced to follow suit even though it makes no rational sense. A 40 lb. mechanical vehicle that can stop in a matter of 4 feet that goes about 20km/h should not have to follow rules set up for 2000 lb. motorized vehicles that take 15 feet to stop and travel at 55 km/hr. There's a reason we all jumped on bikes at age 4 but needed to wait to be fully licensed at 16 to drive.

In an age of increasing density, growing obesity, ridiculous gas prices and global warming, we shouldn't be punishing people that choose a healthier and more environmentally friendly option for transportation. With any major shift like this, there will inevitably be issues that arise, but clear sets of different rules for drivers, cyclists and pedestrians will make everyone's travels easier.

And with rules in place that actually make rational sense for for cyclists, adherence to the law would be higher. There will still be jerks out there for sure, but we can focus law enforcement on cyclists plowing through pedestrians on the sidewalks and not making themselves visible with proper lighting instead ticketing them for rolling through stops signs.
 
And with rules in place that actually make rational sense for for cyclists, adherence to the law would be higher. There will still be jerks out there for sure, but we can focus law enforcement on cyclists plowing through pedestrians on the sidewalks and not making themselves visible with proper lighting instead ticketing them for rolling through stops signs.

Why isn't it rational for a cyclist to stop at a stop sign?
 
Why isn't it rational for a cyclist to stop at a stop sign?

Preservation of energy when the only source of "fuel" you have is what's contained within your muscles. Irrational is wasting your energy with no benefit to yourself or to others.
 

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