Buy a ticket to ride - on the 401 -- Toronto Star

[Twisted Son of Gumby]

I heard - I think from somewhere on Metrolinx's website - that any 401 rex line would be mostly elevated. I'm guessing this would increase the cost of the line by at least a couple of billion dollars, not to mention some adjacent property expropriation.

If the line has to be built, each station should connect to at least one frequent service heavy rail transit line, i.e. subway and/or another rex line. Having 28 stations is not going to attract a significant ridership, and sacrificing two lanes of the 401 to transit is just simply not a good idea (hence the elevated guideway proposal by Metrolinx).

The $5.9 billion price tag for the line alternatively would go a very long way in covering the cost of creating all-day service on the GO lines that warrant all-day service, plus some electrification, possibly some GO line reroutings, and other possible goodies on GO Transit's long term wish list.

Personally, I think the proposed GO Crosstown line has a simply HUGE potential as an alternative to the 401RT regarding a limited stop high speed express line, and would cost far less.

 

[RedRocket191]

From a Metrolinx perspective, there is a business case for the 401 regional rail corridor. If it wasn't viable, it would not have made it this far in the proposal. I do believe that a transit line should be built on this corridor, but it makes more sense to me as a busway to be able to better serve the destinations which are just a bit too far to make an easy connection with a rail line.

As for the Finch hydro corridor, it could be a busway as well. There is no reason why both can't be built. The crosstown GO line is also another project which has no effect on the 401 project. In fact, they both coexist in the studies currently being undertaken. The crosstown GO will likely be built first, but it serves a very different market than the 401 corridor. Don't consider Finch Hydro and Crosstown GO as alternatives to the 401 line. Consider all three as complementing each other.

When it comes to removing lanes from the 401, it's something that we should be looking very hard at. I don't think its a good idea to say "can't be done" and "shouldn't be done" before we study the issue.

 

[doady]

The system must include 4 tracks to allow for separate local and express routes.

Local routes? Why? Are we really going to abandon the Sheppard Subway?

Whether it be for local routes or for express routes, the Finch hydro corridor is a much better choice for rail transit. For local routes, Finch West is already one of the busiest bus routes in the GTA. The 401 is not. For express routes, the Finch corridor has much more space for major terminals and park-and-ride facilities.

And there is not point in having both a 401 and Finch line for express service considering that they serve the same nodes. Add in a 407 line and then you have overkill.

Oh, and did I mention that Finch would be much cheaper?

NOTHING about any 401 rail line make any sense to me, considering the many alternatives.

 

[Chuck]

I'd have no problem eliminating local stops given the close proximity to the Sheppard subway. But I do think that providing an express train that travels at 200 km/hr and only stops 6 times between Pickering and Mississauga would be a good idea. 20 minutes from Pickering to Mississauga would certainly attract riders, even if it meant colossal park n rides at each station.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

NOTHING about any 401 rail line make any sense to me, considering the many alternatives.

I agree completely. Do people in Pickering really need 5 different parallel ways to travel to Mississauga? This 401 line isn't the worst idea in the world, but it *is* a fantasy map-level pet project. Methinks we should build sensible lines first and focus on the dream lines later.

Seems to me that the 401 line's main goal is to punish the Sheppard line (thereby punishing Lastman and Mike Harris).

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

I agree completely. Do people in Pickering really need 5 different parallel ways to travel to Mississauga? This 401 line isn't the worst idea in the world, but it *is* a fantasy map-level pet project. Methinks we should build sensible lines first and focus on the dream lines later.

Seems to me that the 401 line's main goal is to punish the Sheppard line (thereby punishing Lastman and Mike Harris).

I agree as well.

Bluntly, if you live in Pickering and work in Mississauga, shouldn't you think about moving?

 

[ShonTron]

Like I say, it's not a bad idea in theory for a semi-express service, as the 401 does connect a few nodes and major trip generators together, but apart from a few stops, it would have little walk-up traffic. It shouldn't be a top priority at all.

But why are people so obsessed with connecting Pickering to Mississauga?

 

[CDL.TO]

But why are people so obsessed with connecting Pickering to Mississauga?

Because those places represent the mythical "The 905". If you read an article about travel in the GTA, it is always stated that we need rail transit that 'links the 416 and 905' and 'connects suburban communities'. Unfortunately, these absurdly broad strokes make no attempt to recognize the reality of where people actually need to go.

 

[interchange42]

Wait - I thought we were linking up the 416 to the 905 by extending the Spadina line out there!! What more do they want?

42

 

[canrocks]

Let me start off this post by saying that we all know, deep down, that this proposal is a complete joke. Furthermore,

face it: Ontario is what it is because of the 401

Nope. Besides, that's not a good argument.

 

[Hipster Duck]

That's not an argument, but it is a pretty defensible opinion. What other transportation corridor do you think Ontario's manufacturing economy relies on even 1/3 as much?

 

[urbanfan89]

If we need a crosstown east-west express rail service, why not use the existing Lakeshore tracks and run Hamilton - Oshawa trains that skip most stations in between?

Call it the Lakeshore Express Line or something. Much cheaper than a viaduct that will cannibalize the Sheppard Subway.

 

[unimaginative2]

But that's just it: it will cannibalize the Sheppard subway. I can just see the Steve Munro types jumping with glee at the prospect of something -- anything -- that will take people off that subway line that took away a prime opportunity for a slower and less reliable streetcar.

I've heard lots of talk about "business cases" and such, but I have not seen a single study done for all of these projects that actually looks at where people are coming from and where they are going. All we see is big planning arrows and projects "for discussion". Maybe instead of discussing lines on a map, we should be studying travel patterns. That's what the TTC and the province used to do when building new transit infrastructure. It seems pretty crazy that I haven't seen a single such report, or at least one with any sophistication.

 

[RedRocket191]

@unimaginative2

We did study travel patters... we studied it to death.

This is one of the studies used to create a computer model of travel patterns in the GTA. Everything Metrolinx put out in the white paper is run through the computer model, and this produces estimates for modal share, commuting times, etc.

The lines you see are based on actual people giving actual responses about where they go, when they go and why. They are not simply "arrows drawn on a map."

 

[Voltz]

The map that was printed with this article showed the "401RT" running through the existing sheppard subway, so it would not be cannibalized, and would at least provide a decent connection to the Young line.

This proposal, weather good or bad, needs to be evaulated as part of a regional plan. We cant have people just pushing their own pet projects, and trying to compete agianst other proposals.