Brampton Transit/Zum

[Towered]

I agree, ShonTron, we shouldn't be short-sighted here. LRT to downtown Brampton is a key ingredient necessary for concentrating future growth and building a real urban node. Even if the ridership might not be extremely high now, it's an essential sprawl-curbing infrastructure development.

 

[Dan416]

I don't really care too much about Brampton, being a very pro-Mississauga person, but I still believe LRT should go all the way from Port Credit to Downtown Brampton.

 

[urbanfan89]

It's somewhat noteable that the Hurontario LRT will be the first railway line in North America (apart from a DMU line in San Diego with 8000 riders) that does not serve the downtown core.

 

[Anth]

I don't really care too much about Brampton, being a very pro-Mississauga person

You should since it's all basically Toronto (we're all here aren't we?) and we really can't afford to be so venomously parochial anymore. The network effects of local projects affect us all.

 

[Hipster Duck]

It's somewhat noteable that the Hurontario LRT will be the first railway line in North America (apart from a DMU line in San Diego with 8000 riders) that does not serve the downtown core.

But it does serve downtown Mississauga, doesn't it? I know, I know, it's not a downtown in the traditional planning sense, but it is the de facto centre of a suburban region of 800,000 and the hub of its transit operations.

To wade into the LRT to Brampton debate, I think it's absolutely silly for the LRT to end at the edge of the Mississauga boundary. Extending the route an additional 6 km nets you downtown Brampton, the Shopper's World transit mini-hub and the GO/VIA station which could have tremendous potential in the future for KW commuters working in Peel.

 

[W. K. Lis]

...downtown Mississauga...

Downtown Mississauga? To be a downtown, for me, it should have a intercity and commuter train station, pedestrian traffic, high density, a city hall, office buildings, and good public transit. Mississauga's city hall is next to Square One, but is missing a train station, and is not much in pedestrian traffic. It caters too much to the automobile with all those parking lots.

Downtown Brampton? It has a better features than Mississauga. Though smaller, I think it would be a better downtown designation for the Peel Region than Mississauga. There is a train station, more pedestrian traffic, and if the Hurontario LRT goes through Brampton, better public transit.

 

[RedRocket191]

We shouldn't forget that the province is willing to invest at least $15 billion on transit in the GTA by 2020. So the argument that "ridership doesn't warrant us spending the money" is a moot one in my books.

 

[TOareaFan]

Downtown Mississauga? To be a downtown, for me, it should have a intercity and commuter train station, pedestrian traffic, high density, a city hall, office buildings, and good public transit. Mississauga's city hall is next to Square One, but is missing a train station, and is not much in pedestrian traffic. It caters too much to the automobile with all those parking lots.

Downtown Brampton? It has a better features than Mississauga. Though smaller, I think it would be a better downtown designation for the Peel Region than Mississauga. There is a train station, more pedestrian traffic, and if the Hurontario LRT goes through Brampton, better public transit.

Mississauga has done a fabulous job creating a core where one did not exist before but it still suffers from the traditional suburban problem of streets/roads that are too wide and not enough pedistrian friendly development.

Brampton's downtown has the potential to be more of a traditional city centre. There are storefronts and businesses right at street level and, as you said, a GO station right there...so a potentially fantastic link between itercity/regional transit and local transit. Of course to finish it off Brampton needs to ensure that these planned high density residential developments do actually happen.

The business owners in Downtown Brampton have long suffered because the vast majority of their potential consumers live in the traditional new subdivision sprawl the city has found it easier to drive and shop at places like Bramalea City Centre, Shoppers World and Trinity Common. The downtown business owners did not see much potential return to invest just to appeal to the limited supply of customers who live downtown. With higher density residential will come more customers, with more customers will come more investment in things like shops, restaraunts and services....with more investment, the small downtown area of Brampton has the potential to become a bit of a GTA destination (marvelous theatre venue, spectacular downtown park, and already some decent restaraunts).....if that were to happen any proposed LRT could become far more than just a uni-directional commuter line......IMHO.

 

[Dan416]

Only reason Mississauga doesn't have a VIA station is because it's so close to Toronto. Etobicoke doesn't have a VIA station either.

If the Hurontario/Main LRT is going to be backbone of transit in Peel Region, it has to go from Port Credit to Downtown Brampton. It would connect with GO Transit at three stations: Port Credit, Cooksville and Brampton. Those would make great connections. Whatever the current ridership is any of those particular sections doesn't really matter right now, since we're building for the future and to influence the future. Similar to the Yonge line.

 

[W. K. Lis]

We shouldn't forget that the province is willing to invest at least $15 billion on transit in the GTA by 2020. So the argument that "ridership doesn't warrant us spending the money" is a moot one in my books.

In 1967, Philadelphia converted an old interurban to a busway and got a 15% reduction in ridership. When a busway was converted to and LRT, they experienced a 50% increase.

When Los Angeles put in the Harbor Transitway (a BRT) in 1997, it was expected to have 63,000 bus riders. It attracted only 5,000. When the LRT Blue Line was built, it had 40,000 LRT riders, and 80,000 by 2006.

Check out here for more ridership numbers.

 

[RedRocket191]

That is sorta what I was trying to say, but it was more along the lines of:

"If the province is willing to pay for it, then why not build it."

 

[doady]

Downtown Mississauga? To be a downtown, for me, it should have a intercity and commuter train station, pedestrian traffic, high density, a city hall, office buildings, and good public transit. Mississauga's city hall is next to Square One, but is missing a train station, and is not much in pedestrian traffic. It caters too much to the automobile with all those parking lots.

Downtown Brampton? It has a better features than Mississauga. Though smaller, I think it would be a better downtown designation for the Peel Region than Mississauga. There is a train station, more pedestrian traffic, and if the Hurontario LRT goes through Brampton, better public transit.

The Hurontario LRT alone would not give Downtown Brampton better transit than MCC considering that it would serve both.

There are a lot of good reasons build the LRT all the way to Downtown Brampton which you all have mentioned, but at the same time you have to admit there are a lot of problems with the Main St corridor north of Steeles.

If there is only one LRT in Brampton, I would love to see it along Queen St instead, even though it would probably not benefit me or anyone else in Mississauga in any way. But that just my opinion. In my (admittedly limited) experience using Brampton Transit, it seemed to me that Queen was MUCH busier than Main, perhaps busy enough to rival the busiest MT routes: Hurontario, Dundas, Eglinton, Dixie... Queen is right up there...

 

[W. K. Lis]

It doesn't have to end at Brampton. It could continue north until the railway, then continue north on the railway right-of-way which runs midway between Hurontario and McLaughlin to serve the communities of Snelgove, Cheltenham, Inglewood, Belfountain, and Alton.

 

[ShonTron]

York Region Transit has announced their September changes. There's not much there, but they did say that Brampton has gone ahead on their own and added a 77A route. Looks like it's rush hours only with very limited trips, but this means that BT is serious about extending its reach, and likely means that Acceleride won't end at Highway 50 when it comes online. I expect BT to announce their own changes soon.

Brampton Transit will operate a NEW branch of Route 77 called Route 77A that will provide weekday service between Brampton City Centre Terminal and York University via Hwy. 7 and Hwy. 407.
Route 77A will serve four morning eastbound trips and four afternoon westbound trips.

There's also a tender for "the supply and delivery of 'advanced design' transit vehicles, 40 and/or 60 foot over a 3 year period, 'clean diesel' or hybrid". It's an RFP, so who knows what the city is looking for and what they will select.

 

[RedRocket191]

@ ShonTron

I was going to mention the conversation I had with the project manager of Acceleride, but I remembered you were standing next to me at the time...

He did seem really sincere about a desire to have a one seat ride to York U and to the Subway on the B-Y Line, and a desire to have a one seat ride to at least Square One on the Main Line.

The new 77A should prove popular, as Bramalea GO station is overloaded with people heading to York U in the AM rush. I wouldn't be surprised if those 8 trips are extended to full service by Sept. 2009.