Boxing Day Shooting

[dan e 1980]

watch the documentary - the real toronto. you can download it off any p2p program.

more drugs, more guns, more bitches - quote at the end.

you have to see all the guns that are flashed/fired in this movie. most of these guys show their face and some cover their faces in one scene with guns but then you reconize them in another scene. i wonder how many of these people are dead?

it's a death cycle. it is all aquired form the community in which they are raised. they constantly feel that their only way out is to make it big rapping about their story which in return fuels more people that are in similar living conditions to follow their lifestyle.

you can say that gangster hip hop is soylent green.

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

Who were those 20 councilors who chose not to support a special meeting of council? Shame on them all!

If the purpose of this "meeting" was to hear Julian Fantino expound on what needs to be done to clean up Toronto, while council luminaries like Mammolitti stroke their chins in approval, I think Toronto was just as well off having given it a pass.

Not to say that Miller doesn't need to take public, positive action, and soon. (This does not include blaming the Americans and insisting that the city's crime rate is still less than American city X.) But this Fantino business is just stuntmanship.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"Of course [poverty is] a factor...if you think crime in low-income families/areas is limited to blacks you're fooling yourself."

Crime, no...gun crimes, largely yes. Of course, there are very few poor white people in Toronto, but they are less likely to shoot someone. Asians and other people are also less likely to shoot each other. There's no innocent bystanders when thugs stab each other. Don't blame the increase in gun-related deaths on suburban public housing projects either. You can attribute a concentration of crime and criminals to them in general, but getting a gun and shooting someone is still a personal decision that has nothing to do with where you live or how much money you have or your race or whatever else.

 

[EnviroTO]

tudararms: It is not simply *men* commiting these crimes, it is *black men* specifically. Do you not think that is an important piece of information???

I don't think it is important information at all. I don't think any scientific evidence exists that links skin pigmentation to crime. I don't think well educated financially secure individuals with a good upbringing and no exposure to the gangsta culture are any more likely to commit crime because they look down and see that their skin is black or white.

There are two areas that need to be focused on to prevent these shootings... preventing people from becoming criminals, and catching people who are criminals. If all the focus is on people who are already criminals then the problem will not go away because there will always be someone else to fill the shoes of captured criminals. Tougher gun laws only help if illegal guns can be found before they are used in crime or can be prevented from crossing the border. Tougher sentencing only helps to reduce the likelihood of captured criminals re-offending but likely has little affect on preventing first time offences. A gangster which shoots another risks retribution so I doubt tougher sentencing would have any impact on the gangster who is about to commit their first crime or who has not yet been caught. It is the effort to keep youth in school and active in extra-curriculars, the efforts to reduce poverty, discrimination, and isolation, and the efforts to catch existing criminals to make communities safer that will prevent future shootings.

The only reason skin pigmentation would play any role in this is that the "gangsta culture" glamourized in video games, music videos, movies, etc. is shown to be a "black culture" in the media so black people are more likely to identify with it. Make all the video games, music videos, movies, etc with white artists and actors and the adoption of gangsta culture in the white population with similar demographics would probably be quite similar.

 

[tkip]

Again, with this argument on whether its important or not to discuss whether race is relevent to gun violence and gangs in our city.

Since most of this year's shootings and murders have been done by mostly black youths, there is a unmistakable pattern here.

Unless I've gotten my information all wrong or the media has misled me. Probably should let this issue rest for the time being.

On a sidenote: Tests have confirmed that the gun seized when those 2 men were arrested an hour after the bloodbath was at the scene of the shootings.

Only decent news so far.

 

[adma]

To get aside from the gangsta-bashing for a sec, there's a point nobody's mentioned which may, in UT terms, strike rather closer to home than anybody could have expected: the Creba parents being architects.

And well-connected, too. In fact, family friend Kent Rawson was quoted in the Star today; he happens to be a heritage specialist of some note. Note his Call For Tender database listed here.

 

[blixa442]

Since most of this year's shootings and murders have been done by mostly black youths, there is a unmistakable pattern here.

This is not a racial issue, but a cultural one pretty much exclusive to the Jamaican community. Pretending otherwise is plain foolish.

 

[bizorky]

Bizorky, the empirical evidence indicates that you are wrong: It is not simply *men* commiting these crimes, it is *black men* specifically. Do you not think that is an important piece of information???

I don't think it is important information at all. I don't think any scientific evidence exists that links skin pigmentation to crime. I don't think well educated financially secure individuals with a good upbringing and no exposure to the gangsta culture are any more likely to commit crime because they look down and see that their skin is black or white.

The idea that crime is linked to skin colour is superficial: skin colour is not the cause of crime. As a society, we will have to look deeper in order to understand the causes or motivations for criminal acts among specific groups of people. If you only look at surfaces you will only see surfaces.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"I don't think well educated financially secure individuals with a good upbringing and no exposure to the gangsta culture are any more likely to commit crime because they look down and see that their skin is black or white."

People are less likely to have a good upbringing and no exposure to the gangsta culture and are more likely to commit crime if they have black skin...it's kind of a chicken and egg situation, though. In a Utopia, people with black skin would be no different and not disproportionately represented in any statistics, but there's a reason Utopia means 'nowhere.' You can't just ignore history and culture - having black skin means more than just having black skin and it'll be this way for generations.

1991 had 88 murders - anyone know how many of those were shootings? What ever happened to good old fashioned strangulation or poisoning?

 

[tudararms]

I don't think any rational person here is claiming that the genetic material in black skin pigmentation causes one to kill. Come on, lets keep the argumentation reasonable! Again, how does it do any good to keep sidestepping the issue: black men in Toronto are causing this wave of gun violence. Tough to hear. Tough to say. Truth hurts, deal with it. More importantly, the black community has to start dealing with it rather then continually looking for scapegoats, for their own good as well as for the good of the city. It is the only responsible thing to do.

 

[billonlogan]

I came across this article in today's Toronto Sun online www.torontosun.com/News/T...4-sun.html
The part that disturbs me the most about this is The justice handling the appeal ruled "the bail judge overstated the strength of the Crown's case (against Laframboise)" but noted Laframboise "is a party with (the accused accomplice) in the killing of Adam Bender."
I'm not a legal expert, but a 'firearm' was used in the murder, is that not enough to keep these thugs off the street?

Says the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police.

"We have to bring the pendulum back so there is accountability ... that's what we need. If you use a firearm you are going to jail and with a minimum sentence."

Good luck Chiefs

 

[blixa442]

www.yongestreetpeace.tyo.ca/

 

[miketoronto]

Its not the black skin colour that is making people commit crime. It is the gangster culture in the Jamican community that is causing the problem, and they happen to be black.

And to pretend it is not a problem is stupid. Ask any lawfull Jamican, and they will admit there is a problem in their culture with violance.

I was just out with my Jamican friend last night, and we where shopping actually at Yonge and Dundas, and she mentioed it herself that Jamican culture has to much gangster violance in it, and something has to be done about it.

But people want to pretend there is no problem.

 

[dan e 1980]

blix, it's just sickning. only 15 years old. the people who were involved in this crime are the biggest pussies ever. WIMPS. to give them a full frontal lobotomy, they would need some brains to begin with which they lack.

it's time to get rid of the young offenders act.

 

[billonlogan]

Good to see the next mayor take some initiative. It's time to look hard and deep at those councilors who want to be tough on guns and gangs or continue the 'group hug' approach. This meeting should not be held behind closed doors. Comments like the one from Councilor Moscoe just shows a majority of councilors want to bury their heads in the sand and hope this crisis just goes away. Guess what Howard? its only getting worse with the likes of you and your increasing influence with the mayor. We need to see where everyone stands before the fall municipal elections. The time is now not the next time an innocent bystander becomes another victim due to the current council inaction.

www.cbc.ca/toronto/story/...ml?ref=rss
Councillor calls for emergency meeting on gun violence
Last updated Dec 29 2005 04:50 PM EST
CBC News

Jane Pitfield has asked Mayor David Miller to call an emergency meeting of city council as quickly as possible to discuss the issue of gun violence and to create a unified council response to the crisis.

The Ward 26 councillor, a declared mayoralty candidate in next fall's municipal election, told CBC News Online that such a meeting, which would be well before the next scheduled council session on Jan. 31, is necessary to reassure the public and to ensure that candidates in the upcoming federal election are aware of what Toronto is demanding of them.

Pitfield sent her request by e-mail on Wednesday to the mayor and all city councillors.

"The timing of this meeting is crucial, knowing there will be a federal election on Jan. 23 and [that] there are specific demands and requests that we need to make of the federal parties," she said.

She'd like to see an immediate strengthening of criminal laws regarding gun violence and deportation of non-resident violent criminals. "We also at the provincial level need a dedicated group of judges who can efficiently hear violent crime [cases] and we need to request the opening of more courts, especially in the east end of the city, " she said.

The mayor's communications director, Don Wanagas, said Thursday afternoon that Miller's office would "consider the request" on Friday. The mayor was due back from a family vacation in Spain on Thursday night.

However, councillor Howard Moscoe was quick to condemn the idea of an emergency meeting.

"It's not necessary to have a meeting of council to put out a platform for councillor Pitfield to support her election campaign," said the veteran Ward 15 representative.

"Having a bunch of politicians sitting around and talking about people engaged in shootings on Yonge Street is totally non-productive."

He added that it's up to the police chief to develop a plan, send it to the Policy and Finance Committee and then have that group come up with any additional financing required.

"The last thing politicians can offer on a matter of this nature is wisdom."

Pitfield's call does have at least one supporter, however.

"I am supportive," Ward 22 councillor Michael Walker told CBC News Online. "It's time we find out how serious this problem is.

"I hate trying to be one of the managers of this city and never hearing from the mayor or the police. No more group hugs from the mayor. As one of the people who vote on this [upcoming] $600 million police budget I want to know what's going on.

"I don't need the details."

Walker is calling for the emergency meeting to be behind closed doors, to promote an "open and frank discussion."