Boxing Day Shooting

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Just how would council making a few public statements in a day or two save lives, may I ask? Have you considered it could all be posturing, considering Jane Pitfield is running for mayor?

Beware of those to prey on and manipulate heighted emotions for their own ends.

AoD

 

[miketoronto]

I agree its time to get rid of the Young Offenders Act also.

No matter what age you know what things you are not suppose to do.

Time to get these guys pictures plastered over the newspapers so people really know who is doing this stuff.

Maybe instead of spot checks, people caught with guns or who have commited with a crime and are now out on the streets again, should have to wear a special bracelet or something that alerts people to what these people have done.
Almost like a house arrest thing.

 

[shawnmicallef]

Andrew Spicer's blog has had a couple of excellent and reasoned posts about the shooting:

www.andrewspicer.com/index.html

He points to an interesting quote by John Tory:

[Ontario PC leader John] Tory said Toronto also needs to expand social programming for the city's troubled neighbourhoods. He acknowledged that many of the cuts to such programs occurred during the provincial reign of his party under Mike Harris. "Everybody has to shoulder a share of the blame," he said. "If it's about fixing past mistakes, then so be it."

 

[bizorky]

This is not a racial issue, but a cultural one pretty much exclusive to the Jamaican community. Pretending otherwise is plain foolish.

Nevertheless poorly phrased. Violent crime, gangs and so on are not exclusive to the Jamaican-Canadian community.

 

[SD2]

Do we even know that everyone involved is of Jamacian descent??

 

[boiler2000]

What I'd like to know is how these guys can freely hang out and deal drugs around Yonge/Gould without police questioning them, keeping profiles, keeping them away, etc. Everyone knows the dudes standing around there are dealers, why not the police?

 

[rbtaylor]

Tougher sentencing only helps to reduce the likelihood of captured criminals re-offending but likely has little affect on preventing first time offences.

I don't see how the sentences could possibly be any firmer. Right now the sentence for murder within Toronto is death by gun-shot without trial. Heck, the sentence for tresspassing or theft can be death without trial depending on who you represent and who you commit your crimes against.

If gang members are not afraid of other gangs ending their life, why the heck would they be afraid of capital punishment or less firm punishments by the government?

Beef up border patrols and apply serious fines to people who lose their guns to cut off the weapon supply. Toronto police confiscate about 1300 guns every year (about 50% smuggled into the country and 50% are stolen from legitimate owners). The owner of stolen weapon should be heavily fined if the weapon is used for illegal activities if it was stolen during transport or private storage. Gun clubs all have regularly inspected lockers. This is an action that can have an immediate impact.

Long term solution is to mix up the population a little. This means building small amounts of social housing or rent-geared to income in established neighbourhoods and somewhat higher end housing in poorer areas on a block by block basis.


Finally, didn't Fantino and Blair lock up most of the major gang leaders over the last 2 or 3 years? Are we sure the recent rash of shootings is not due to younger less experienced people taking leadership roles and being a little more hot-headed their their predecessors?

 

[cassiusa]

From what I understand there were two gangs in the shootout during which there were apparently over 30 rounds fired. Neither of the gangs has that territory as their turf afaik. Probably suburban gangs.

 

[tkip]

Good point on its kind of obvious that these guys hanging out down there are dealers. Though I'm not sure if these particular guys were from the downtown turf or not.

And another good point with how many, if any, of the guys involved with the shootout were of Jamician background or not. My friend brought up an interesting point though.

Well, a few anyway.

Would be amusing were it not for the grim situation but she keeps questioning why the media and others, constantly reports obvious adults as "20 yr youths" during the news.

These aren't youths. These are adults.

Once you reach the legal age, you're a grownup. Even someone around the age of 18 or 19 isn't really a youth. Just a younger adult. She makes sense.

Another point is that lost in all this, is that drugs and trade wars are what's feeding these activities. And connecting the dots brings us to...... Us.

If people are buying their... stuff, and its illegal then they seem to never make the connection on who is getting the stuff through to their neighborhoods.

Drugs basically come intially from the sources, through the poorer areas into the hands of dealers and eventually into the hands of people living in richer neighborhoods.

She points out as well, that "gangsta" stuff isn't fueling this craze for one very important reason.

It's not black youths buying and making themselves rich. Its middle-class white kids who are buying the records and in turn, making record labels run by rich white people very wealthy.

White kids buy all this stuff and the lower end pions (her words, not mine) just past the supply along while the real profit making goes to the boys on top.

So the main point is this:

If there wasn't a "enormous" demand, then supply wouldn't be required and while white society would probably find another way to exploit minorities, blacks aren't alone in this culture of drugs and violence.

Her words and she's a black woman working in social services. A very smart woman by the way and has a wealth of knowledge locked in that brain when you have a moment to spare and listen to her.

 

[Ed007Toronto]

Makeshift memorial has been created at the spot. Lots of flowers, pictures and notes of condolences.

 

[tkip]

Oh, she and I both agree that the comment made in the media about "Toronto lost its innocence" is completely outlandish.

We passed this back in the summer when that little boy and girl were struck by stray bullets.

The media never called these moments "the final straw". It had to take the death of a young, middle-class white girl before people finally said "enough is enough".

And we wonder minorities and certain blacks in particular feel excluded and isolated and just plain bitter towards the rest of us. Makes you think....

 

[SD2]

Oh, she and I both agree that the comment made in the media about "Toronto lost its innocence" is completely outlandish.

Actually, it wasn't the media that came up with that...a police officer (I think the chief) did.

 

[bizorky]

Did anyone see the commentary by Ed Butts in the Globe on thursday concerning Toronto crime in 1920? Apparently a city can be a crime virgin at least twice (with reference to losing its innocence - whatever that means).

 

[wyliepoon]

Apparently a city can be a crime virgin at least twice

St. John's, NF recorded no murders in 1989 and 1990.

 

[EnviroTO]

Again, with this argument on whether its important or not to discuss whether race is relevent to gun violence and gangs in our city.

Since most of this year's shootings and murders have been done by mostly black youths, there is a unmistakable pattern here.

This is not a racial issue, but a cultural one pretty much exclusive to the Jamaican community. Pretending otherwise is plain foolish.

Does the Italian mob prove that there was a problem in the Italian community, the white race, or the Catholic religion or did it simply prove that there was a crime organization that needed to be dealt with along with social issues that allowed them to recruit or gain new followers? Does the Triad prove that there is a problem in the Chinese community, the asian race, or the buddhist religion or does it simply prove that there is a crime organization to be dealt with along with social issues that allow them to recruit? Does the KKK prove that there is a problem with the American community, the white race, or the christian religions or that there was a hate organization that needs to be dealt with and social issues that allow them to recruit?

The fact that the people committing these crimes are black is irrelevant... the fact they are in a crime organization, have guns, and were somehow converted into gangsters possibly due to social issues is what is truly relevant. Convincing ourselves that the issue somehow has something to do with being Jamaican or black is nuts... the history of the lives of these people that led them to become criminals and the crimes they have committed needs to be the focus, not the nationality or skin colour.