Boxing Day Shooting

[tkip]

Well, because putting R.I.P beneath the picture of the slain girl seemed a little tasteless to me. Guess I've been a little sensitive the last few days.

I work just around the corner from the shootings and 2 of my female co-workers had just left to grab some food right across the street from where the shootings are located as they occured.

I actually thought they were some of the victems when I switched the tv on. Just been generally disgusted since the whole thing went down.

 

[spasongs]

Man,

some of the BS I read on these forums is so crazy.

Once again Toronto is getting a bad name because of some black gangstas,most likely Jamaican decent, raised without a father, who are probably known to Police, decided that human life means nothing...nada..zilch
"**** everyone else including the innocent people around me, I am gonna teach _____ a lesson"

This time lots of people who have nothing to do with have their lives shattered. The average person wonders if Toronto is safe to raise their children.

If a bunch of Scottish thugs were shooting each other and this happened, I would say the same God damned thing. It is SO time for this to be addressed by this community it is almost silly.

And don;t say basketball courts. Babies having babies leads to this bullshit. A culture of fathers having kids with 4 different Moms and buggering off leads to this.

I got so mad earlier this year with the headlines, and when I wrote about these things I was told it was racist. I said **** it then. I'll sit in my nice hood and let the gangs "work it out" .

But now they are killing innocents again. Now they are making world headlines about the city I love and live in.

There are lots of poor people who do not grow up to become killaz. They are loved, taught right and wrong and taught to respect others, especially authority.

Some of you need to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

 

[dan e 1980]

there is a possible solution to this.


it seems that most of these gangs form in low income housing. a big problem is that TOO MANY people who have hard lives, not enough money live all concentrated in one area. alot of these people are miserable and when you put alot of miserable people together, they generate even more misery.

areas like jane/finch, regent park, etc will always spawn violence and sometimes that violence spills into other areas.

if you spread out the people at the bottom wrung of the ladder of society so that they live dispersed throughout the city, away from people in the same boat as them, their lives won't be as bad and thus they woun't makes others lives bad. they'll have a better chance of pulling themselves out of poverty and misery if they are surrounded by some happy people.

areas like jane/finch, regent park need to be dismantled. they are concentration camps of violence.

 

[miketoronto]

dan e 1980 that is an excuse. My sister was actually watching a show that had the mother of the guy shot outside that funural. And she even said growing up in low income areas like her and her son did is no excuse for people shooting each other up.

Even if you live in a poor area, you know shooting is wrong. Don't give that crap that because you are poor you learn killing is o.k.

Jane and Finch has been there for decades, and only now are we seeing such a huge rise in this kind of shooting problems.

Something has to be addressed.

spasongs you do bring up some good points. It does seem alot of Jamican kids are brought up in broken families, and that has to be part of the problem here.
Even just in my work, we have three Jamican girls under 21 who are going to be having babies soon. Of course they are not married or anything, and their own parents are single parents, or from broken families, or on welfare, etc.
It is a big problem in the Jamican community, and it must lead to some of the violance that is happening if so many kids are coming from broken families with no sense of respect.
On my bus each day you even see it on the buses going to Malvern, with all the Jamican girls who can't be more then 20 getting on with their two or three kids and no father in sight, and the bad attitude that goes along with it.

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

A pity that, because many of these shot gangsters who survive their shootings would have died had their shooters used a bit more deliberation.

Not really. We were trained to fire out the entire clip, reload and fire out the reloads too. It's really hard to hit something with a handgun, and they don't hit very hard compared to other weapons. Unfortunately, sometimes just one is all it takes.

areas like jane/finch, regent park need to be dismantled. they are concentration camps of violence.

I think you're right. That particular area was claimed by people from Regent Park years ago, but the coming rearrangement of Regent Park may break this up. Hopefully they won't be replaced by someone else.

It is a big problem in the Jamican community, and it must lead to some of the violance that is happening if so many kids are coming from broken families with no sense of respect.

Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the Mafia hit that lead to Louise Russo's shooting? The circumstances don't seem to be significantly different from the Boxing Day incident.

 

[blixa442]

I think it's interesting that whenever there is a gang-related funeral you never see any fathers grieving. It's always mothers present without spouses.

 

[dan e 1980]

excuse?? it's a cause. why do you think that most of the people who live in these communities want to get the hell out?

if you live in a community with massive social problems, chances are that your children are gonna start hanging around the wrong crowd and get involved in bad stuff.

you can't pack people with problems into one community or even one building.

people adapt to their environments. they become who they associate with. as the old saying goes - you are what you eat.

 

[dan e 1980]

there is never one cause and solution to the problem.

here's a few probable causes...

lack of family

negative community

gangster culture

gangster consumerism

social policy

environmental causes such as pollution (think of lead) and poor living conditions

 

[tudararms]

dan e 1980, how many times does it have to be said: poverty is not the cause here!! There are many other poor communities and disadvantaged groups of all ethnic and racial backgrounds in Toronto that do not resort to this type of violence! Besides, didn't one of the shooters take off in a BMW?? Blaming this on poverty is simply an insult to those who are poor and yet who still live with dignity and respect for life.

 

[SD2]

dan e 1980, how many times does it have to be said: poverty is not the cause here!! There are many other poor communities and disadvantaged groups of all ethnic and racial backgrounds in Toronto that do not resort to this type of violence! Besides, didn't one of the shooters take off in a BMW?? Blaming this on poverty is simply an insult to those who are poor and yet who still live with dignity and respect for life.

Of course it's a factor...if you think crime in low-income families/areas is limited to blacks you're fooling yourself.

 

[dan e 1980]

didn't one of the shooters take off in a BMW?? Blaming this on poverty is simply an insult to those who are poor and yet who still live with dignity and respect for life.

how did the shooter aquire the BMW? if someone is a gang banger and drives an expensive car, they probably aquired it in some illegal manner. it doesn't make them rich or well off if they drive a fancy car. they are still in a lifestyle that was sprouted out of poverty. now they have to maintain that level at all costs. sometimes those costs include human life.

and no. i don't see it as an insult to the poor. there are poor people who are strong and don't resort to these lifestyles. the shame is that their goodness is always brought to the test by these gangster assholes who flourish
in poverty stricken areas. they take over communities in their own name and make it their playground. lets take away their playground.

remeber, the wolves always prey on the weak.

there is an intresting documentry called "the real toronto".

it's about toronto gangs. i saw i bit of it and when you see these gangsters talk, they always refer to their community or their building as their turf and they make threats to rival gangs not to enter their turf, why? because it is their place of business where they take advantage of the poor around them for their own cause.

 

[tudararms]

Of course I realize that socio-economic status is somewhere in the soup. I just do not think it is a fundamental root cause of this type of violence, and to focus on it as so would be misleading.

 

[dan e 1980]

like i said, it is not one cause and it is not one solution but issues need to be dealt with. things can't continue the way they are now.

we gotta stop saying "that's not the only reason" because if you say that about every reason, nothing will never get done.

every problem, not matter how small needs to be dealt with.

 

[billonlogan]

From The Office of the Mayor:
Update on the Community Safety Plan

I am pleased to report to City Council on our progress in implementing the Community Safety Plan. Since it was unanimously adopted by Council in March 2004, the strategy is already having a profound impact on the lives of young people and communities.
(78 homicides, 52 by a firearm, which is nearly twice as many as last year.)
By targeting resources to neighbourhoods in need, the plan is creating opportunities for young people who might otherwise be at risk for frustration and despair. New programs and partnerships developed through the Community Safety Plan are generating new energy and optimism within the designated priority neighbourhoods, Malvern in Scarborough, Jane-Finch in North York and Jamestown in Etobicoke.

God help us all!

 

[billonlogan]

How much faith should we have in our civic leaders when you read bullshit like this. Here is short excerpt from a NOW Magazine article WHOSE TOWN IS THIS ANYWAY? dated FEB 4 - 11, 2004.
If you want to read the whole article here it is... www.nowtoronto.com/issues...story6.php

WHY MAYOR DAVID MILLER IS REFUSING TO PLAY BY TOP COP JULIAN FANTINO'S RULES
in a gesture that's being interpreted many ways, David Miller refused last week to support a special meeting of council to talk with Chief Julian Fantino about the increasing incidence of gun crime and gang violence. He was one of 20 council members who voted against Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti's call for the extraordinary session and thus prevented the matter from getting the two-thirds majority needed for addition to the agenda. The mayor's critics were quick to suggest it was a signal that Miller is soft on crime or, at the very least, isn't prepared to make law enforcement the priority it should be. But Miller responds that the message he got from the series of budget consultations he and budget chief David Soknacki recently held with city residents is that Toronto is safe.

"(Residents are) concerned that it's becoming less safe, and the concern in particular is about guns, and gangs who seem to be using the guns," Miller adds. "But on the whole, people still believe our city is safe.''

He says people also made it clear they expect council to spend for impact. "What that means to me is trying to marshal our resources to invest in neighbourhoods where kids are at risk," the mayor says. "That's the most effective thing the city can do in terms of crime prevention, and we're working on a strategy to try to do that."

Who were those 20 councilors who chose not to support a special meeting of council? Shame on them all!