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cassiusa
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I understand that the altercation took place at a different location and that there was a pretty heavy police presense along the shopping area that day. But I could be wrong.
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Brighter Hell
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'We will do more,' Toronto mayor vows
By HEBA ALY
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 Posted at 4:05 AM EST
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
TORONTO — Young activists demanded a youth-centred approach to solving Toronto's gun violence yesterday, including more jobs for young people, more youth-led projects and more funding for recreational programs and Toronto Community Housing.
"We need more support in the city of Toronto. That's basically the issue here," said Saeed Selvam, 16, of the Toronto Youth Cabinet, an advocacy organization at city hall. "Community action requires willpower but it also requires adequate resources."
The appeal came after a 15-year-old girl died and six other people were injured when gunfire broke out in Toronto's downtown core Monday night.
Mayor David Miller promised that city council would take the demands seriously.
"We will do more," he told The Globe and Mail from Spain, where he was vacationing.
Joined by various activist groups and two city councillors, the youth cabinet called for 100 new jobs for youth within the next year, to which the mayor replied, "We need to bring many more than 100 jobs."
"I'm doing everything I can to get the private sector, for example, as well as the federal and provincial governments to invest in employment opportunities for young people," Mr. Miller said.
Despite the closing of two youth centres in November, he said the city is working on several programs through the mayor's advisory panel on community safety to improve vulnerable communities. Initiatives will continue to be announced over the next few months, he said.
The city already has a Community Safety Investment program (formerly called Breaking the Cycle of Violence), which funds activities that build community capacity for violence prevention. The youth cabinet has asked that $100,000 of those grants be prioritized for youth-led programs.
But one city councillor said yesterday that the mayor and city council have not done enough.
"In government, it's so easy to blame other levels of government," said Jane Pitfield (Don Valley West). "There are specific things that we can do here in the city of Toronto."
The city's youth leaders took a similar community-based approach, rejecting Prime Minister Paul Martin's proposed ban on handguns.
"It's not guns that kill people. It's people that kill people," said Kofi Hope, 22, of the Black Youth Coalition Against Violence. "If they're not killing them with guns, it will be with knives, it will be whatever they have access to."
Rather than banning handguns and stopping guns at the border, Mr. Hope said, politicians should try to address root causes by improving the situations of young people in marginalized communities.
While Mr. Miller supported the calls for more programs, he said he completely supports the handgun ban. "A handgun turns a thug into a killer."
City councillors who attended a press conference in support of the youth yesterday said they see value in addressing the violence problem through the younger generation.
"They do have the insight and the perspective that perhaps some of the adults in Toronto don't have," Ms. Pitfield said.
"The best allies we have on youth items is young people themselves," added Olivia Chow, who started the youth cabinet in 1998. The former city councillor is now running for a seat in the House of Commons. She said the federal government also has a responsibility to listen to young people and should create a witness protection program for youth who come forward.
This is the first time since the youth cabinet's inception that it has offered solutions to the problem of youth violence. They are "disturbed by these arbitrary and reckless acts of violence in public places," said Keegan Henry-Mathieu, 18.
"It is intolerable for violence to be accepted as a fact of life in marginalized communities, which are clearly in dire need of healing."
By HEBA ALY
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 Posted at 4:05 AM EST
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
TORONTO — Young activists demanded a youth-centred approach to solving Toronto's gun violence yesterday, including more jobs for young people, more youth-led projects and more funding for recreational programs and Toronto Community Housing.
"We need more support in the city of Toronto. That's basically the issue here," said Saeed Selvam, 16, of the Toronto Youth Cabinet, an advocacy organization at city hall. "Community action requires willpower but it also requires adequate resources."
The appeal came after a 15-year-old girl died and six other people were injured when gunfire broke out in Toronto's downtown core Monday night.
Mayor David Miller promised that city council would take the demands seriously.
"We will do more," he told The Globe and Mail from Spain, where he was vacationing.
Joined by various activist groups and two city councillors, the youth cabinet called for 100 new jobs for youth within the next year, to which the mayor replied, "We need to bring many more than 100 jobs."
"I'm doing everything I can to get the private sector, for example, as well as the federal and provincial governments to invest in employment opportunities for young people," Mr. Miller said.
Despite the closing of two youth centres in November, he said the city is working on several programs through the mayor's advisory panel on community safety to improve vulnerable communities. Initiatives will continue to be announced over the next few months, he said.
The city already has a Community Safety Investment program (formerly called Breaking the Cycle of Violence), which funds activities that build community capacity for violence prevention. The youth cabinet has asked that $100,000 of those grants be prioritized for youth-led programs.
But one city councillor said yesterday that the mayor and city council have not done enough.
"In government, it's so easy to blame other levels of government," said Jane Pitfield (Don Valley West). "There are specific things that we can do here in the city of Toronto."
The city's youth leaders took a similar community-based approach, rejecting Prime Minister Paul Martin's proposed ban on handguns.
"It's not guns that kill people. It's people that kill people," said Kofi Hope, 22, of the Black Youth Coalition Against Violence. "If they're not killing them with guns, it will be with knives, it will be whatever they have access to."
Rather than banning handguns and stopping guns at the border, Mr. Hope said, politicians should try to address root causes by improving the situations of young people in marginalized communities.
While Mr. Miller supported the calls for more programs, he said he completely supports the handgun ban. "A handgun turns a thug into a killer."
City councillors who attended a press conference in support of the youth yesterday said they see value in addressing the violence problem through the younger generation.
"They do have the insight and the perspective that perhaps some of the adults in Toronto don't have," Ms. Pitfield said.
"The best allies we have on youth items is young people themselves," added Olivia Chow, who started the youth cabinet in 1998. The former city councillor is now running for a seat in the House of Commons. She said the federal government also has a responsibility to listen to young people and should create a witness protection program for youth who come forward.
This is the first time since the youth cabinet's inception that it has offered solutions to the problem of youth violence. They are "disturbed by these arbitrary and reckless acts of violence in public places," said Keegan Henry-Mathieu, 18.
"It is intolerable for violence to be accepted as a fact of life in marginalized communities, which are clearly in dire need of healing."
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shawnmicallef
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Christopher DeWolf
Guest
let's put some things into perspective, shall we? as has been mentioned, there have not been as many murder in 2005 as in 1991, when a record high was reached. there have, however, been more gun murders than any other year.
toronto's murder rate is not actually the lowest of any major canadian cities -- montreal's has been lower for a number of years. it is, however, lower than those of calgary, edmonton, vancouver and winnipeg. i don't know about ottawa.
toronto's murder rate is not actually the lowest of any major canadian cities -- montreal's has been lower for a number of years. it is, however, lower than those of calgary, edmonton, vancouver and winnipeg. i don't know about ottawa.
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TdotTrickyRicky
Guest
I think the tougher sentencing is a given and should be pushed for. But as I mentioned the prevention is not easy and not even really the responsibility of the police. More police can process more crimes, but deterence and prevention are responsibilities of us, you, me, the company you work for, the school in your neighbourhood etc. Crime is in my opinion a function of civil disengagement, and it is a feed-back loop that causes more disengagement through fear. The number one step in the road to recovery is admission of the problem and our collective participation in allowing the problem to fester. The sound bite gems that the media loves where someone says "I'm not coming downtown anymore it's too dangerous" or "I'm moving to such and such city because of this" make me shake my head. Those attitudes are a cope-out and part of the problem. While money helps I sincerely believe that it is more a function of information, communication and organization.
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thx1038
Guest
i say do it where it all happened. Dundas square. The water system there will take care of the blood. If hard punishments like this will stop the violence and incidents like what just happened, I'm all for it.
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bizorky
Guest
My post was questioning scapegoats. I think most of them represent crappy reasoning.
Your point that skin colour has something to do with crime is also without basis. How does skin colour cause crime? What is it that I am to notice at a cursory glance about black people? The "black" community of Toronto is diverse and multicultural. It also comes in male and female, and is of all age groups. Interestingly, one does not see a high crime rate among the youngest or oldest members of the community, nor does one see excess crime among the female portion of the population. The crime rate is concentrated among young men, which - surprise - is quite typical across the board. Regardless of skin colour, origin and income, young men commit a disproportionate amount of crime. What you may want to look at is how that activity comes to be expressed, and why it is so.
Ultimately, no "community" is fully reponsible for the acts of individuals. And it is typically individuals who are committing these crimes. If individuals want rights, they need to know they have responsibilities that go along with them. If individuals want respect, they need to know that it must be earned in an acceptable and civilized manner, not out of the barrel of a gun or at the tip of a blade. Some things are not negotiable.
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miketoronto
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bizorky you can not deny the fact that there is a very big gangster mindset, put into Jamican youth in this city. And it is causing problems. Even my friends who are Jamican admit that there is this push to become all ganster, etc within the Jaminca community. And it is causing problems.
Anyway I was talking with my sister about this, and she brought up a good point. We need to take the parents of kids in this city, and teach them how to be parents again.
We can use all the excuses about people being poor, being shoved in public housing, etc. But at the end of the day they know that shooting someone is wrong.
But of course our youth today don't even have parents that are sane and know right from wrong.
And we also have to get back to community involvment. When I was small, there was such an active neighbourhood watch in my hood for example. Now, there is nothing, and the neighbourhood watch signs are not even on the light polls anymore.
Our community just does not care much anymore. And we have to revive community spirit in fighting crime.
Anyway I was talking with my sister about this, and she brought up a good point. We need to take the parents of kids in this city, and teach them how to be parents again.
We can use all the excuses about people being poor, being shoved in public housing, etc. But at the end of the day they know that shooting someone is wrong.
But of course our youth today don't even have parents that are sane and know right from wrong.
And we also have to get back to community involvment. When I was small, there was such an active neighbourhood watch in my hood for example. Now, there is nothing, and the neighbourhood watch signs are not even on the light polls anymore.
Our community just does not care much anymore. And we have to revive community spirit in fighting crime.
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michaelpfox
Guest
I think one thing that should happen, is someone - preferably the mayor or the police chief - should stand in front of the cameras and simply state the all the statistics, and all that is known about what is up.
Hopefuly, that would legitimize a public dialogue based on facts; if the facts show that the black community, a subset of the black community, or any other identifiable group is committing most of the crime then legitimizing this as a touchable political matter would help place responsibility squarely to where it is due.
As well, I am bothered when the cops don't release all the info that is known, when they also complain no witnesses are talking to them. Clearly, if they are unable to solve the murders, or others in the public service are unable to solve the social and economic issues in the community, then someone else must. If there is a gang war going on, which gangs, why, how did it start, who has been killed, what status did they have, what was the retaliation, and so on.
We don't know what the answer is, because we don't know what the question is.
Hopefuly, that would legitimize a public dialogue based on facts; if the facts show that the black community, a subset of the black community, or any other identifiable group is committing most of the crime then legitimizing this as a touchable political matter would help place responsibility squarely to where it is due.
As well, I am bothered when the cops don't release all the info that is known, when they also complain no witnesses are talking to them. Clearly, if they are unable to solve the murders, or others in the public service are unable to solve the social and economic issues in the community, then someone else must. If there is a gang war going on, which gangs, why, how did it start, who has been killed, what status did they have, what was the retaliation, and so on.
We don't know what the answer is, because we don't know what the question is.
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adma
Guest
Dundas Square. Hmmm. A high-minded addition to the public realm becomes a place for executions. Where have we seen that sort of thing happen before...
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adma
Guest
Oh, and when push comes to shove, I'd like to see a weeding out of the unfit in Toronto, too. That is, the kind of society that nurtures these miketoronto'n'his dad idiot panaceas to the crime/unrest problem should be weeded out. Because that is (paradoxically) what could send us on a path t/w Detroitdom, rather than the simple unchecked presence of violent gangstas...
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spasongs
Guest
Remember
STAR CHAMBER
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STAR CHAMBER
???
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yyzer
Guest
R.I.P.
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bizorky
Guest
mike, seriously, you've got to get a grip on your hand-wringing and casting of broad generalizations about people. "Gangsta" imagery is all over the place. I don't pay attention to it and I see it. That said, do you actually have proof that this is the sole cause of crime in Toronto among Jamaican male youth? Do you actually have factual data to support this notion? Because if you really want to reduce crime, you have to understand what is causing it in the first place. Attacking imagery that pisses you off will get you nowhere. Stating blanket generalizations about people offers up nothing useful. And you will never get rid of crime; so long as there are human beings, and rules and regulations for created to define appropriate conduct, there is going to be crime.
I'll offer you a simple fact: a great majority of Torontonians of Jamaican origin are not criminals and not involved in violent crimes. So why do they get dragged into the dirt? It is because people persist in using broad generalizations to define things they are not too sure about. The result is that all members of a community become suspect for simply being a member of that community.
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miketoronto
Guest
bizorky no one said all Jamican people are criminals. But there is no denying the fact that most of the serious crime is being commited by Jamican men in Toronto. And we have to find out why?
Lets look at the apartment buildings near my house. Since I was small, the apartment tower that is mostly Jamican has always had problems. Why is that? Something is up.
You can't deny that there is not a problem when you see stuff like that. Howcome the apartment building across the street, full of different nationalities never has problems. Yet the apartment building with all the Jamican's has stabbing problems, gang problems, fire trucks there every week, etc.
You gotta ask why? And believe me I went to school with many a troubled Jamican person from those very buildings.
We have to address why so many of the Jamican youth are going into gangs, etc. And its not racist to say that. And if you think it is, then to bad. Because I know tons of Jamican people who say the same thing, that there is a gang and violance problem among Jamican youth in this city.
And while we are at it, we have to tackle the Tamel gang problem that is taking over Scarborough. If we don't crack down on all these gangs, nothing is going to get better.
By the way, did you know the shooting made DETROIT NEWS today. Because even in the city you guys like to make fun of, gangsters don't go downtown shoot people walking the street.
Lets look at the apartment buildings near my house. Since I was small, the apartment tower that is mostly Jamican has always had problems. Why is that? Something is up.
You can't deny that there is not a problem when you see stuff like that. Howcome the apartment building across the street, full of different nationalities never has problems. Yet the apartment building with all the Jamican's has stabbing problems, gang problems, fire trucks there every week, etc.
You gotta ask why? And believe me I went to school with many a troubled Jamican person from those very buildings.
We have to address why so many of the Jamican youth are going into gangs, etc. And its not racist to say that. And if you think it is, then to bad. Because I know tons of Jamican people who say the same thing, that there is a gang and violance problem among Jamican youth in this city.
And while we are at it, we have to tackle the Tamel gang problem that is taking over Scarborough. If we don't crack down on all these gangs, nothing is going to get better.
By the way, did you know the shooting made DETROIT NEWS today. Because even in the city you guys like to make fun of, gangsters don't go downtown shoot people walking the street.