B
Brighter Hell
Guest
^neither will tougher sentences. from everything i've read tougher sentences don't reduce crime.
good point.
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O
Observer Walt
Guest
^ I agree. It is so easy to take the usual superior attitude and point the finger at the Americans. It's an easy way to avoid taking a hard look closer to home.
S
scarberiankhatru
Guest
It's on CNN.com's main page:
Canada blames U.S. for gun violence
Toronto shooting is latest death in a record year
Tuesday, December 27, 2005; Posted: 9:54 p.m. EST (02:54 GMT)
TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian officials, seeking to make sense of another fatal shooting in what has been a record year for gun-related deaths, said Tuesday that along with a host of social ills, part of the problem stemmed from what they said was the United States exporting its violence.
Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin and Toronto Mayor David Miller warned that Canada could become like the United States after gunfire erupted Monday on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a 15-year-old girl and wounding six bystanders -- the latest victims in a record surge in gun violence in Toronto.
The shooting stemmed from a dispute among a group of 10 to 15 youth, and the victim was a teenager out with a parent near a popular shopping mall, police said Tuesday.
"I think it's a day that Toronto has finally lost its innocence," Det. Sgt. Savas Kyriacou said. "It was a tragic loss and tragic day."
While many Canadians take pride in Canadian cities being less violent than their American counterparts, Toronto has seen 78 murders this year, including a record 52 gun-related deaths -- almost twice as many as last year.
"What happened yesterday was appalling. You just don't expect it in a Canadian city," the mayor said.
"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.
Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.
"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.
Miller said that while almost every other crime in Toronto is down, the supply of guns has increased and half of them come from the United States.
Miller said the availability of stolen Canadian guns is another problem, and that poverty in certain Toronto neighborhoods is a root cause.
"There are neighborhoods in Toronto where young people face barriers of poverty, discrimination and don't have real hope and opportunity. The kind of programs that we once took for granted in Canada that would reach out to young people have systematically disappeared over the past decade and I think that gun violence is a symptom of a much bigger problem," Miller said.
The escalating violence prompted the prime minister to announce earlier this month that if re-elected on January 23, his government would ban handguns. With severe restrictions already in place against handgun ownership, many criticized the announcement as politics.
Martin, who says up to half of the gun crimes in Canada involve weapons brought in illegally from the United States, raised the smuggling problem when he met with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in October.
Martin offered his condolences in a statement Tuesday, saying he was horrified by the shootings.
"What we saw yesterday is a stark reminder of the challenge that governments, police forces and communities face to ensure that Canadian cities do not descend into the kind of rampant gun violence we have seen elsewhere," Martin said.
John Thompson, a security analyst with the Toronto-based Mackenzie Institute, says the number of guns smuggled from the United States is a problem, but that Canada has a gang problem -- not a gun problem -- and that Canada should stop pointing the finger at the United States.
"It's a cop out. It's an easy way of looking at one symptom rather than addressing a whole disease," Thompson said.
Two suspects were arrested and at least one firearm was seized soon after the shootings Monday. Kyriacou said it was an illegal handgun.
Three females and four males were injured, including one male who is in critical condition. Police believe they were bystanders.
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Canada blames U.S. for gun violence
Toronto shooting is latest death in a record year
Tuesday, December 27, 2005; Posted: 9:54 p.m. EST (02:54 GMT)
TORONTO, Ontario (AP) -- Canadian officials, seeking to make sense of another fatal shooting in what has been a record year for gun-related deaths, said Tuesday that along with a host of social ills, part of the problem stemmed from what they said was the United States exporting its violence.
Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin and Toronto Mayor David Miller warned that Canada could become like the United States after gunfire erupted Monday on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a 15-year-old girl and wounding six bystanders -- the latest victims in a record surge in gun violence in Toronto.
The shooting stemmed from a dispute among a group of 10 to 15 youth, and the victim was a teenager out with a parent near a popular shopping mall, police said Tuesday.
"I think it's a day that Toronto has finally lost its innocence," Det. Sgt. Savas Kyriacou said. "It was a tragic loss and tragic day."
While many Canadians take pride in Canadian cities being less violent than their American counterparts, Toronto has seen 78 murders this year, including a record 52 gun-related deaths -- almost twice as many as last year.
"What happened yesterday was appalling. You just don't expect it in a Canadian city," the mayor said.
"It's a sign that the lack of gun laws in the U.S. is allowing guns to flood across the border that are literally being used to kill people in the streets of Toronto," Miller said.
Miller said Toronto, a city of nearly three million, is still very safe compared to most American cities, but the illegal flow of weapons from the United States is causing the noticeable rise in gun violence.
"The U.S. is exporting its problem of violence to the streets of Toronto," he said.
Miller said that while almost every other crime in Toronto is down, the supply of guns has increased and half of them come from the United States.
Miller said the availability of stolen Canadian guns is another problem, and that poverty in certain Toronto neighborhoods is a root cause.
"There are neighborhoods in Toronto where young people face barriers of poverty, discrimination and don't have real hope and opportunity. The kind of programs that we once took for granted in Canada that would reach out to young people have systematically disappeared over the past decade and I think that gun violence is a symptom of a much bigger problem," Miller said.
The escalating violence prompted the prime minister to announce earlier this month that if re-elected on January 23, his government would ban handguns. With severe restrictions already in place against handgun ownership, many criticized the announcement as politics.
Martin, who says up to half of the gun crimes in Canada involve weapons brought in illegally from the United States, raised the smuggling problem when he met with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in October.
Martin offered his condolences in a statement Tuesday, saying he was horrified by the shootings.
"What we saw yesterday is a stark reminder of the challenge that governments, police forces and communities face to ensure that Canadian cities do not descend into the kind of rampant gun violence we have seen elsewhere," Martin said.
John Thompson, a security analyst with the Toronto-based Mackenzie Institute, says the number of guns smuggled from the United States is a problem, but that Canada has a gang problem -- not a gun problem -- and that Canada should stop pointing the finger at the United States.
"It's a cop out. It's an easy way of looking at one symptom rather than addressing a whole disease," Thompson said.
Two suspects were arrested and at least one firearm was seized soon after the shootings Monday. Kyriacou said it was an illegal handgun.
Three females and four males were injured, including one male who is in critical condition. Police believe they were bystanders.
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
T
thx1038
Guest
The brazen Boxing Day shooting didn’t just make headlines in this city, it made headlines around the world.
Publications in Australia, China, India, and cities across the United States picked up the story, which shines a less-than-flattering light on Toronto.
Here are just a few of the samples we found:
The Australian, Australia: “Gunfire erupted on a busy Toronto street filled with holiday shoppers yesterday, killing a young woman and wounding six other people, in the latest in a record surge in gun violence in the Canadian city this year...â€
People’s Daily Online, China: “The shooting that killed a teenage girl and wounded six others in downtown Toronto in Canada Monday appeared to stem from a dispute between two young men, police said. ... Gun violence has been rising noticeably in Toronto in recent years, where the unemployment rate keeps going up and disparity between the rich and the poor widens. There have been 78 murders in the city this year, including a record 52 by gunfire.â€
Chicago Tribune, U.S.: “(Police) said two suspects were arrested and at least one gun was seized shortly after the 5:30 p.m. incident near the popular Eaton Center shopping mall, a downtown zone popular with tourists.â€
Detroit Free Press, U.S.: “...The Toronto zone was also the site of two other recent shootings. There have been 78 homicides in Toronto this year, including a record 52 by gunfire -- twice as many as last year.
News24.com, South Africa: “Gunfire erupted on a busy Toronto street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a young woman and wounding six others, police said. ... The busy downtown area, popular with tourists, was also the site of two other shootings this year.â€
Hindustan Times, India: “...One person was killed and the others were taken to hospital after the shooting on Monday on bustling Yonge Street near the popular Eaton Centre shopping mall. ... Emergency vehicles were crowded around the scene, which was cordoned off with yellow police tape.â€
New York Post, New York: "Gunfire erupted on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers last night, killing a woman and injuring six others, authorities said."
China Daily, China: "Shots that rang out from a passing BMW killed one instantly and wounded five at about 5:15 p.m. local time on Yonge Street near the popular Eaton Centre shopping mall, which was crowded with Boxing Day shoppers"
Publications in Australia, China, India, and cities across the United States picked up the story, which shines a less-than-flattering light on Toronto.
Here are just a few of the samples we found:
The Australian, Australia: “Gunfire erupted on a busy Toronto street filled with holiday shoppers yesterday, killing a young woman and wounding six other people, in the latest in a record surge in gun violence in the Canadian city this year...â€
People’s Daily Online, China: “The shooting that killed a teenage girl and wounded six others in downtown Toronto in Canada Monday appeared to stem from a dispute between two young men, police said. ... Gun violence has been rising noticeably in Toronto in recent years, where the unemployment rate keeps going up and disparity between the rich and the poor widens. There have been 78 murders in the city this year, including a record 52 by gunfire.â€
Chicago Tribune, U.S.: “(Police) said two suspects were arrested and at least one gun was seized shortly after the 5:30 p.m. incident near the popular Eaton Center shopping mall, a downtown zone popular with tourists.â€
Detroit Free Press, U.S.: “...The Toronto zone was also the site of two other recent shootings. There have been 78 homicides in Toronto this year, including a record 52 by gunfire -- twice as many as last year.
News24.com, South Africa: “Gunfire erupted on a busy Toronto street filled with holiday shoppers, killing a young woman and wounding six others, police said. ... The busy downtown area, popular with tourists, was also the site of two other shootings this year.â€
Hindustan Times, India: “...One person was killed and the others were taken to hospital after the shooting on Monday on bustling Yonge Street near the popular Eaton Centre shopping mall. ... Emergency vehicles were crowded around the scene, which was cordoned off with yellow police tape.â€
New York Post, New York: "Gunfire erupted on a busy street filled with holiday shoppers last night, killing a woman and injuring six others, authorities said."
China Daily, China: "Shots that rang out from a passing BMW killed one instantly and wounded five at about 5:15 p.m. local time on Yonge Street near the popular Eaton Centre shopping mall, which was crowded with Boxing Day shoppers"
T
thx1038
Guest
And wasn't boxing day enough... more gun fire downtown the next day! what is this place coming to?
www.pulse24.com/News/Top_...6/page.asp
A 21-year-old Toronto man faces charges after shots were fired inside a packed club in the wee hours of Boxing Day morning.
No one was hit by the bullets, which flew at the Privilege nightclub on Peter St., near Richmond St., at about 12:30am Monday, but the incident forced the facility to be shut down while police investigated.
A suspect was nabbed a short time later following a short foot chase in the area.
Club security guards had ejected a man from the club earlier in the night, but he apparently returned with a friend. A scuffle ensued with other patrons before the gun was pulled.
Officers in the area heard the shots and rushed onto the scene, arresting a man exiting the bar.
Weapons and ammunition were recovered nearby.
Alex Madimenos faces several charges, including two counts of assault with a weapon.
www.pulse24.com/News/Top_...6/page.asp
A 21-year-old Toronto man faces charges after shots were fired inside a packed club in the wee hours of Boxing Day morning.
No one was hit by the bullets, which flew at the Privilege nightclub on Peter St., near Richmond St., at about 12:30am Monday, but the incident forced the facility to be shut down while police investigated.
A suspect was nabbed a short time later following a short foot chase in the area.
Club security guards had ejected a man from the club earlier in the night, but he apparently returned with a friend. A scuffle ensued with other patrons before the gun was pulled.
Officers in the area heard the shots and rushed onto the scene, arresting a man exiting the bar.
Weapons and ammunition were recovered nearby.
Alex Madimenos faces several charges, including two counts of assault with a weapon.
M
miketoronto
Guest
My dad brought up a good idea.
The police should patrol the streets, and stop and question or search any guys hanging out in huge groups together who look like gangsters.
I think he brings up a good point. It may not be politically correct, but you know when you see 5 or 6 guys all wearing bandana's, and their gangster clothing, that for the most part they are up to no good.
I don't think it would be to bad for the police to just ask to do a quick search for guns on people on the street, if you look like you are not to no good.
We have to get tough or the criminals will continue to get their way in this city.
Actually my dad says the police use to this when he first moved to Toronto. He remembers the police seperating groups of guys on the street, and telling them they could not crowd 6 or 7 together.
The police should patrol the streets, and stop and question or search any guys hanging out in huge groups together who look like gangsters.
I think he brings up a good point. It may not be politically correct, but you know when you see 5 or 6 guys all wearing bandana's, and their gangster clothing, that for the most part they are up to no good.
I don't think it would be to bad for the police to just ask to do a quick search for guns on people on the street, if you look like you are not to no good.
We have to get tough or the criminals will continue to get their way in this city.
Actually my dad says the police use to this when he first moved to Toronto. He remembers the police seperating groups of guys on the street, and telling them they could not crowd 6 or 7 together.
S
SD2
Guest
My dad brought up a good idea.
The police should patrol the streets, and stop and question or search any guys hanging out in huge groups together who look like gangsters.
I think he brings up a good point. It may not be politically correct, but you know when you see 5 or 6 guys all wearing bandana's, and their gangster clothing, that for the most part they are up to no good.
I don't think it would be to bad for the police to just ask to do a quick search for guns on people on the street, if you look like you are not to no good.
We have to get tough or the criminals will continue to get their way in this city.
Mike, this is one of the most ludicrous ideas you've ever posted. Most people who you feel "look" like gansters, or seem to be wearing what you think is ganster clothing, are exactly the opposite. Are you at all familiar with civil rights?
And as ganjavih mentioned, it's quite counterproductive.
Actually my dad says the police use to this when he first moved to Toronto. He remembers the police seperating groups of guys on the street, and telling them they could not crowd 6 or 7 together.
And your dad approves of this?!
My dad was on the other end of police discrimination when he came to Canada in the 70s, and it's not something anyone should have to experience.
No offense Mike, but your dad's idea is idiotic.
T
tkip
Guest
Doing randrom "racial" profiling isn't going to work.
But as my brother said, when you see a group of young guys hanging and patrolling an area with obvious attitude, something is going to happen.
Especially when it tends to be one specific group of youths.
You gotta start throwing people in jail for a long time, break the gangs and make it a lenghty jail term for possession of any and all firearms.
Really, until the courts start throwing the book at these guys, why would they stop? What's stopping them? Nothing. You gotta start making examples of people.
And if a firearm is in fact used during a illegal act, extra long sentences. And make them stick. And then start going into the neighborhoods and get things fixed.
But as my brother said, when you see a group of young guys hanging and patrolling an area with obvious attitude, something is going to happen.
Especially when it tends to be one specific group of youths.
You gotta start throwing people in jail for a long time, break the gangs and make it a lenghty jail term for possession of any and all firearms.
Really, until the courts start throwing the book at these guys, why would they stop? What's stopping them? Nothing. You gotta start making examples of people.
And if a firearm is in fact used during a illegal act, extra long sentences. And make them stick. And then start going into the neighborhoods and get things fixed.
G
ganjavih
Guest
Not only would that not be politically correct, it would be a waste of resources and likely counterproductive. What is the solution? I don't know. But the solution to repeat offenders (a significant proportion) is of course zero tolerance and stiff jail sentences.
M
miketoronto
Guest
Another shooting today in Scarborough.
Maybe its time to CCTV the city, like Hamilton is doing.
Maybe its time to CCTV the city, like Hamilton is doing.
S
spasongs
Guest
just got in from Bancroft for family dinner. One topic tonight at dinner. A family visit to Toronto, where I defended the downtown for 20 minutes. My Step Mom is afraid to go down there. My sister in law thinks we all live in fear etc etc. I scoffed etc, saying it was truly gang bangers on gang bangers. More in the bad areas of Jane and finch etc.
I have the feeling I will be hearing from them tommorow. They will be a no show I am sure.
We need actual setences being handed out. And tougher laws.
We need a mixture of old school and new policing IE good cops, but the criminals out there, may not be sure if they are gonna get a thumping as it " sometimes happens" They have ZERO fear of the Police
Gun on you ?? 5 years Mandatory
Gun in a Crime? 10 mandatory
Murder? Your ****ed... IN real life, Death sentence or REAL life in prison hard labour. In my mind.. medical experiemnts
Black leaders, more specific Jamiacan community leaders.. great job , keep up the great work.. kidding. Get a life or better yet, save some. stop blaming everything from racism to slavery and get on with it. As pointed out here earlier. Lots of people have big troubles, just like you. Look inward and deal with it.
Perhaps the fact that 5 innicent bystanders were hit in a main tourist area will finally get people moving on their ****ed up politicians.
Perhaps that one if them was an innocent 15 year old white girl will get the white folks truly angry. Really angry, expecting real change. As the constant " young black male slain" does not seem to hold any weight these days
And don't blame Harris. Blame the stupid and selfish ****s who go and bring kids into poverty, knowing they have no chance. Blame the parents who do not take the time to raise their kids and instill love and respect. Ethics of hard work equals results. Talk , don't fight. Life is prescious. Life is meaningful. There is something to being a good person. To make a community stronger.
I am working at building my self up so that I am ready to have a child in the next 2 years. When it happens, I hope to not be working 3 jobs. I hope to not be knocking up convienece stores to pay for them. No My girl and I will wait to get ourselves together. What is so hard to figure out there? Why should you all pay to raise my children? If the answer is " so they don;t grow up to rob, rape and kill my children" we are indeed screwed.
I have the feeling I will be hearing from them tommorow. They will be a no show I am sure.
We need actual setences being handed out. And tougher laws.
We need a mixture of old school and new policing IE good cops, but the criminals out there, may not be sure if they are gonna get a thumping as it " sometimes happens" They have ZERO fear of the Police
Gun on you ?? 5 years Mandatory
Gun in a Crime? 10 mandatory
Murder? Your ****ed... IN real life, Death sentence or REAL life in prison hard labour. In my mind.. medical experiemnts
Black leaders, more specific Jamiacan community leaders.. great job , keep up the great work.. kidding. Get a life or better yet, save some. stop blaming everything from racism to slavery and get on with it. As pointed out here earlier. Lots of people have big troubles, just like you. Look inward and deal with it.
Perhaps the fact that 5 innicent bystanders were hit in a main tourist area will finally get people moving on their ****ed up politicians.
Perhaps that one if them was an innocent 15 year old white girl will get the white folks truly angry. Really angry, expecting real change. As the constant " young black male slain" does not seem to hold any weight these days
And don't blame Harris. Blame the stupid and selfish ****s who go and bring kids into poverty, knowing they have no chance. Blame the parents who do not take the time to raise their kids and instill love and respect. Ethics of hard work equals results. Talk , don't fight. Life is prescious. Life is meaningful. There is something to being a good person. To make a community stronger.
I am working at building my self up so that I am ready to have a child in the next 2 years. When it happens, I hope to not be working 3 jobs. I hope to not be knocking up convienece stores to pay for them. No My girl and I will wait to get ourselves together. What is so hard to figure out there? Why should you all pay to raise my children? If the answer is " so they don;t grow up to rob, rape and kill my children" we are indeed screwed.
B
bizorky
Guest
This gun crime:
Damn, useless, democratically-elected (by voters like us) politicians, they are not stopping crimes like this. But is it the fault of city politicians, provincial politicians, and federal politicians? How so? Do these people support violent crime? Are they blind to it? What could they do about this specific crime? How could they have stopped it before it happened? It is easy to blame politicians for the crimes of individuals over whom they have no control over. Too easy.
It's the fault of the useless gun registry. This is a straw-man argument. Does car registration stop drunk driving or speeding? Let's get rid of car registration, too, while we're at it.
It's the fault of the legal system - except for the fact that people encounter the legal system AFTER they commit a crime, not before. Maybe we should get rif of the legal system as well. It did not stop this crime.
It's the fault of the police, if they were not so busy chasing speeders they would be out stopping crimes before they happen.
Is it due to supposed lax styles of punishment? Do we know whether any of these people had been in jail before? Does the threat of punishment actually deter crime from happening? Does it do so always? The death penalty in the United States has not resulted in a lower murder rate than that of Canada with no death penalty.
Is it the fault of the school curriculum, the schools, and the ministry of education? Again, how so? Having been in the education profession, I don't recall the promotion of gun crime or the neglect of safety. It is quite clear that shooting a gun off in a crowded location could and did result in the death of a person. We can assume that this was a well understood fact by the perpatrators, since they were trying to shoot and kill other people.
Is it a problem typical to black people? Very easy and utterly meaningless. Skin colour does not make a person want to shoot a gun. "Black" people in Toronto are of many different cultures. This is more significant than skin colour, but probably has very, very little to do with gun use.
It's poverty. But does poverty actually produce extremely high rates of crime among all groups of people, male or female, and among all age groups? Promoting poverty as a cause for crime allows for silly arguments that suggest locking poor people up because they are prone to criminality. This has been done before and it won't work. And there are better reasons for mitigating poverty than the nebulous answers that it automatically produces crime (see B. Ebbers, J. Rigas et al.)
I don't want to go on. My point is quite simple: the causes for this type of crime is not easily reduced to simple (or simplistic) answers. The causes for this type of crime is not easy to answer because there are no easy answers. Simple as that. We could say that it is the crime largely of young men, which would only be accurate until we accept that a vast majority of young men don't go around shooting each other. What exists is a gap in knowledge, a gap that is maintained in part because we persist in looking at simplistic and useless solutions to things that we can never accurately predict.
The best (and it is not perfect) attempt would be to begin to understand how to explain and convince everyone that this type of violence is empty, and always will be empty.
Beyond that, I too, am bereft of absolute solutions that will solve the problem. And I was about three blocks from the scene of the crime when it happened. I never knew what was about to take place. No one there did.
But I will keep going downtown.
Damn, useless, democratically-elected (by voters like us) politicians, they are not stopping crimes like this. But is it the fault of city politicians, provincial politicians, and federal politicians? How so? Do these people support violent crime? Are they blind to it? What could they do about this specific crime? How could they have stopped it before it happened? It is easy to blame politicians for the crimes of individuals over whom they have no control over. Too easy.
It's the fault of the useless gun registry. This is a straw-man argument. Does car registration stop drunk driving or speeding? Let's get rid of car registration, too, while we're at it.
It's the fault of the legal system - except for the fact that people encounter the legal system AFTER they commit a crime, not before. Maybe we should get rif of the legal system as well. It did not stop this crime.
It's the fault of the police, if they were not so busy chasing speeders they would be out stopping crimes before they happen.
Is it due to supposed lax styles of punishment? Do we know whether any of these people had been in jail before? Does the threat of punishment actually deter crime from happening? Does it do so always? The death penalty in the United States has not resulted in a lower murder rate than that of Canada with no death penalty.
Is it the fault of the school curriculum, the schools, and the ministry of education? Again, how so? Having been in the education profession, I don't recall the promotion of gun crime or the neglect of safety. It is quite clear that shooting a gun off in a crowded location could and did result in the death of a person. We can assume that this was a well understood fact by the perpatrators, since they were trying to shoot and kill other people.
Is it a problem typical to black people? Very easy and utterly meaningless. Skin colour does not make a person want to shoot a gun. "Black" people in Toronto are of many different cultures. This is more significant than skin colour, but probably has very, very little to do with gun use.
It's poverty. But does poverty actually produce extremely high rates of crime among all groups of people, male or female, and among all age groups? Promoting poverty as a cause for crime allows for silly arguments that suggest locking poor people up because they are prone to criminality. This has been done before and it won't work. And there are better reasons for mitigating poverty than the nebulous answers that it automatically produces crime (see B. Ebbers, J. Rigas et al.)
I don't want to go on. My point is quite simple: the causes for this type of crime is not easily reduced to simple (or simplistic) answers. The causes for this type of crime is not easy to answer because there are no easy answers. Simple as that. We could say that it is the crime largely of young men, which would only be accurate until we accept that a vast majority of young men don't go around shooting each other. What exists is a gap in knowledge, a gap that is maintained in part because we persist in looking at simplistic and useless solutions to things that we can never accurately predict.
The best (and it is not perfect) attempt would be to begin to understand how to explain and convince everyone that this type of violence is empty, and always will be empty.
Beyond that, I too, am bereft of absolute solutions that will solve the problem. And I was about three blocks from the scene of the crime when it happened. I never knew what was about to take place. No one there did.
But I will keep going downtown.
S
Sir Novelty Fashion
Guest
If I have ever written or breathed anything unflattering about Christie Blatchford, I take it back. This is by far the best, most sensible, thing I've read so far; especially if you get to the end.
---
By CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 Posted at 4:04 AM ESTKey
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
TORONTO — This one, well, this child was 15.
She was a gifted and versatile athlete -- she swam, played softball and ran cross-country -- at one of the city's better schools. She was a knockout, with white-blonde hair and the long limbs of the backstroker she was.
"The funniest, prettiest and all-around nicest person" at her school is how she was being remembered yesterday on a classmate's blog. "I can't think of a single person who didn't love her," the friend wrote.
The girl was shot once in the upper body.
Her family has asked Toronto Police not to release their daughter's name for as long as that is possible. The police obliged. It seemed a reasonable enough request. The family has rather enough on their plate without having to fend off requests for photos and interviews.
Their daughter was murdered, and she was murdered in front of her mom and a sister while they were engaged in that newly dangerous urban activity -- shopping the Boxing Day sales right downtown on the busiest street in the city on one of the busiest retail days of the year, absolutely surrounded by crowds.
At police headquarters yesterday, spokesman Mark Pugash was asked again and again, "Is this the worst?"
He didn't know how to answer.
"What do you mean by worst?" he wondered.
Do you rank it by age and the tender years of the victim?
If so, then the shooting of little Shaquan Cadougan, who was but four years old when he was struck four times when gunfire erupted outside his mother's townhouse this August, is the hands-down winner.
If the measure is age and brazenness, then it would be the shooting of that little girl, Tamara Carter, who was all of 11 when she was shot in the forehead while sitting on the Jane Street North bus with her mom after getting her hair braided on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
By boldness alone?
Aaahh, then perhaps the shooting this summer at Dundas Square -- with its much-talked-about, and somewhat controversial, police video cameras, not to mention the presence of actual uniformed officers -- would qualify. Twenty-one-year-old Dwayne Taylor was gunned down there, the shooting and the subsequent pursuit and arrest of the alleged killer all caught on tape.
If the criteria are the number of shots and the number of silenced witnesses, well, any of the various nightclub shootings of recent years, wherein shots and witnesses fly with equal speed, would do. I remember one, a few years ago, where dozens and dozens of people happily stepped over the body of the fallen in order to flee the joint before police arrived.
If place is the determining factor, then surely the shooting last month on the front steps of the West Toronto Seventh-Day Adventist Church, when an 18-year-old was killed while attending the funeral for his friend murdered 10 days before, would take the cake.
The point is, despite the sure pronouncements yesterday from several quarters that this shooting -- this particular one -- means the end of Toronto's innocence, this has been a long time in the coming.
The city making a claim for innocence now is like the woman in that old joke who refuses to sleep with a man for $10 but agrees when the ante rises to $1,000. In the punch line, the woman is outraged and asks, "What do you take me for, a prostitute?" and the man fairly replies, "We've already established that. We're just arguing about price."
Toronto's elephant in the room, for about a decade, has been the number of gun slayings.
Most of the time, they are confined to small pockets of the city dense with public housing projects -- places like Jamestown in north Etobicoke; the Jane Street-Finch Avenue West area; parts of Scarborough. Many of the victims themselves were at least peripheral players in the drugs-and-gun milieu; many were affiliated to the various gangs in those areas. Many were poor and people of colour.
These hard truths should never make homicide acceptable, and I'm not suggesting they did, but by the nature of the victims and the geographical narrowness of the shooting locales, what they did do was make it endurable for most Torontonians most of the time.
As a for instance, while the young men of Jamestown effectively were being picked off one by one just a few years ago -- I wrote a story about this protracted rash of shootings, and traced about 20 of Jamestown's young who had either killed or been killed in about a two-year period -- most people in the city were still able to go about their business feeling confident they were safe.
In the main, that is still true, as anyone who lives downtown, as I do, would tell you. For the people in the violence-plagued areas I mentioned, however, it has been a long time since they could say the same thing.
Last week, while I was travelling with the Jack Layton campaign, one of the people I met was an Ontario organizer for the party who reminded me we'd met, many years earlier, when there were protests about the several fatal police shootings of young black men. "Now," I said, "young black men are shooting one another." At the same time, we both said, "That's worse."
Periodically, a particular shooting will burst through the bubble of complacency: An especially young child will be hurt; the son or daughter of a palpably, demonstrably good family will die; a shooting will unfold in a very public or sacrosanct place. Whenever it does impinge upon the bigger, broader, middle-class city, the cry goes up for a fix.
But the problem isn't new, nor is the widespread reluctance to squarely face it. I don't think it's rocket science, either.
In the short term, judges have to treat weapons offences seriously, make bail harder to win for those who have previous weapons convictions or breaches of firearms prohibitions, and impose the toughest sentences the law allows. Those who open fire on Yonge Street and at funerals and on buses are already beyond rehabilitation, and those who carry handguns are unlikely to be moved by a ban on them: You might just as well ban crime, for all that will work.
But for the next generation of youngsters in those mostly forgotten corners of the city, any solution is more difficult and will take longer and cost a lot of money. These are young people with promise, who should not be written off because of where they live. Their neighbourhoods may need more police, but they also need more recreation centres, more companies willing to get involved in jobs programs, more sports teams and more clubs, more role models for those who don't have dads and more help for hard-working single parents.
In the Boxing Day shooting, Toronto lost a lovely teenage girl who used to get up for six o'clock swimming practice. She was a perfect innocent, absolutely. The city herself, its citizens and leadership, not so much.
---
By CHRISTIE BLATCHFORD
Wednesday, December 28, 2005 Posted at 4:04 AM ESTKey
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
TORONTO — This one, well, this child was 15.
She was a gifted and versatile athlete -- she swam, played softball and ran cross-country -- at one of the city's better schools. She was a knockout, with white-blonde hair and the long limbs of the backstroker she was.
"The funniest, prettiest and all-around nicest person" at her school is how she was being remembered yesterday on a classmate's blog. "I can't think of a single person who didn't love her," the friend wrote.
The girl was shot once in the upper body.
Her family has asked Toronto Police not to release their daughter's name for as long as that is possible. The police obliged. It seemed a reasonable enough request. The family has rather enough on their plate without having to fend off requests for photos and interviews.
Their daughter was murdered, and she was murdered in front of her mom and a sister while they were engaged in that newly dangerous urban activity -- shopping the Boxing Day sales right downtown on the busiest street in the city on one of the busiest retail days of the year, absolutely surrounded by crowds.
At police headquarters yesterday, spokesman Mark Pugash was asked again and again, "Is this the worst?"
He didn't know how to answer.
"What do you mean by worst?" he wondered.
Do you rank it by age and the tender years of the victim?
If so, then the shooting of little Shaquan Cadougan, who was but four years old when he was struck four times when gunfire erupted outside his mother's townhouse this August, is the hands-down winner.
If the measure is age and brazenness, then it would be the shooting of that little girl, Tamara Carter, who was all of 11 when she was shot in the forehead while sitting on the Jane Street North bus with her mom after getting her hair braided on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
By boldness alone?
Aaahh, then perhaps the shooting this summer at Dundas Square -- with its much-talked-about, and somewhat controversial, police video cameras, not to mention the presence of actual uniformed officers -- would qualify. Twenty-one-year-old Dwayne Taylor was gunned down there, the shooting and the subsequent pursuit and arrest of the alleged killer all caught on tape.
If the criteria are the number of shots and the number of silenced witnesses, well, any of the various nightclub shootings of recent years, wherein shots and witnesses fly with equal speed, would do. I remember one, a few years ago, where dozens and dozens of people happily stepped over the body of the fallen in order to flee the joint before police arrived.
If place is the determining factor, then surely the shooting last month on the front steps of the West Toronto Seventh-Day Adventist Church, when an 18-year-old was killed while attending the funeral for his friend murdered 10 days before, would take the cake.
The point is, despite the sure pronouncements yesterday from several quarters that this shooting -- this particular one -- means the end of Toronto's innocence, this has been a long time in the coming.
The city making a claim for innocence now is like the woman in that old joke who refuses to sleep with a man for $10 but agrees when the ante rises to $1,000. In the punch line, the woman is outraged and asks, "What do you take me for, a prostitute?" and the man fairly replies, "We've already established that. We're just arguing about price."
Toronto's elephant in the room, for about a decade, has been the number of gun slayings.
Most of the time, they are confined to small pockets of the city dense with public housing projects -- places like Jamestown in north Etobicoke; the Jane Street-Finch Avenue West area; parts of Scarborough. Many of the victims themselves were at least peripheral players in the drugs-and-gun milieu; many were affiliated to the various gangs in those areas. Many were poor and people of colour.
These hard truths should never make homicide acceptable, and I'm not suggesting they did, but by the nature of the victims and the geographical narrowness of the shooting locales, what they did do was make it endurable for most Torontonians most of the time.
As a for instance, while the young men of Jamestown effectively were being picked off one by one just a few years ago -- I wrote a story about this protracted rash of shootings, and traced about 20 of Jamestown's young who had either killed or been killed in about a two-year period -- most people in the city were still able to go about their business feeling confident they were safe.
In the main, that is still true, as anyone who lives downtown, as I do, would tell you. For the people in the violence-plagued areas I mentioned, however, it has been a long time since they could say the same thing.
Last week, while I was travelling with the Jack Layton campaign, one of the people I met was an Ontario organizer for the party who reminded me we'd met, many years earlier, when there were protests about the several fatal police shootings of young black men. "Now," I said, "young black men are shooting one another." At the same time, we both said, "That's worse."
Periodically, a particular shooting will burst through the bubble of complacency: An especially young child will be hurt; the son or daughter of a palpably, demonstrably good family will die; a shooting will unfold in a very public or sacrosanct place. Whenever it does impinge upon the bigger, broader, middle-class city, the cry goes up for a fix.
But the problem isn't new, nor is the widespread reluctance to squarely face it. I don't think it's rocket science, either.
In the short term, judges have to treat weapons offences seriously, make bail harder to win for those who have previous weapons convictions or breaches of firearms prohibitions, and impose the toughest sentences the law allows. Those who open fire on Yonge Street and at funerals and on buses are already beyond rehabilitation, and those who carry handguns are unlikely to be moved by a ban on them: You might just as well ban crime, for all that will work.
But for the next generation of youngsters in those mostly forgotten corners of the city, any solution is more difficult and will take longer and cost a lot of money. These are young people with promise, who should not be written off because of where they live. Their neighbourhoods may need more police, but they also need more recreation centres, more companies willing to get involved in jobs programs, more sports teams and more clubs, more role models for those who don't have dads and more help for hard-working single parents.
In the Boxing Day shooting, Toronto lost a lovely teenage girl who used to get up for six o'clock swimming practice. She was a perfect innocent, absolutely. The city herself, its citizens and leadership, not so much.
D
dan e 1980
Guest
toronto gun violence might be the new sars. the american media is already eating this up.
T
tudararms
Guest
Bizorky, it's time to stop looking for scapegoats, i.e. poverty, alienation, guns, politicians, the police, and so on. Often the truth is simple and evident, if we are willing to face it and admit it. The problem is we are not. The simple reality here is that "colour of skin" *is* a contributing factor to Toronto's problem with violence. Any most pedestrian or cursury glance at the statistics points to this, and yet we are so completely unwilling to address it, even within the confines of sensitive and responsible social discourse. This is our problem as a city at large, and as a black community more specifically.
I'm certain that the reasons for the predominance of violance within the black community are manifold and complex as social issues invariable are, however as has been said before there has to come a time when you stop viewing yourself as a vicitim with no control over your choices and get over it! This has not happened. Indeed, the very opposite has occurred where a very influential and popular (sub)culture has even glorified and made a badge of honour of its sense of marginality, no matter how self-imposed or arbitrary. This is all the more frustrating and glaring in a multicultural city like Toronto which has been welcoming and embracing of so many. Are there problems? No doubt, but if ever there was a place for opportunity it is this city.
The time has come for a community to face itself with brutal honesty. This is not a time to heal, rather a time to open the wounds and examine where they come from. Throwing money or police or all the political attention in the world at this situation will not help until the community is willing to be honest with itself, own up to its responsibilities, and most importantly help itself to move on with dignity and a sense of empowerment.
I'm certain that the reasons for the predominance of violance within the black community are manifold and complex as social issues invariable are, however as has been said before there has to come a time when you stop viewing yourself as a vicitim with no control over your choices and get over it! This has not happened. Indeed, the very opposite has occurred where a very influential and popular (sub)culture has even glorified and made a badge of honour of its sense of marginality, no matter how self-imposed or arbitrary. This is all the more frustrating and glaring in a multicultural city like Toronto which has been welcoming and embracing of so many. Are there problems? No doubt, but if ever there was a place for opportunity it is this city.
The time has come for a community to face itself with brutal honesty. This is not a time to heal, rather a time to open the wounds and examine where they come from. Throwing money or police or all the political attention in the world at this situation will not help until the community is willing to be honest with itself, own up to its responsibilities, and most importantly help itself to move on with dignity and a sense of empowerment.