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Boxing Day Shooting

the other day there was a drive by shooting at church street and weston road. just around 2 hours before, i was on that stretch of road and when i was stopped at the traffic light on church, i was staring off into space looking at a storefront sign of a hair salon till the light turned green. who would have guessed that 2 hours later, the guy that got shot walked out of that place. any change in the daily schedule of things and i could have ended up in the middle of it.

soo much tragedy & soo many innocent people end up in the middle of other peoples bullshit because of these dumb c***s.
 
^so you're saying that the fact that those measures might just increase the number of people getting killed doesn't matter?
Oh I'm not saying it doesn't matter. I'm just saying the right people will be killed for the right reasons. People who should be killed would be. I have no problem with the police killing 2000, 3000 known, habitual gang members and their protectors if it means that one fewer innocent person will be shot. Only unlike these scum, the state should do it in secret, creating a fear amongst them on a level far surpassing the type gangsters wish to create by doing these shootings in public. So yes, that's exactly what I am saying. The snake may indeed bite back if you poke it with a stick. But next time you don't poke it with a stick, you lop its head off with a machete before that snake kills your pet kitty. And when a new snake arises, you kill it too. And you keep killing them until there aren't any more snakes left to go around. And then you build a few basketball courts.
 
Disgusting.

I would however not suggest any single course of action as the cure for the problem. Sure, I am all for beefing up sentencing and enforcement (which I think is lax), but that by itself does not address the root cause of violence.

Beware of oversimplistic solutions to complex problems.

AoD
 
have no problem with the police killing 2000, 3000 known, habitual gang members and their protectors if it means that one fewer innocent person will be shot. Only unlike these scum, the state should do it in secret, creating a fear amongst them on a level far surpassing the type gangsters wish to create by doing these shootings in public.

the only problem with that is that you create an authority with a vast amount of power that is unchecked & unquestioned that answers no nobody just waiting to be exploited for corrupt purposes, politics and personal beefs - that will eventually be infiltrated by the very gangs they are meant to supress.
 
...even China Daily carried this story. We're finally world-class.
 
I find myself unsatisfied with the amount of information given about those who commit these crimes. They publish where the crimes take place, but I suspect that the location or area of residence of the criminals would be more informative. It is unlikely we will ever be able to stop the most callous crimes from occuring, but criminal activity and organized gangs fester in activities and areas where the citizens and enterprises of the city don't see or choose to not look. The police can only do so much, it is my anecdotal experience that they are not focused on crime prevention. Their focus and experties is reactionary, enforcing the law after crimes take place, not pro-active. That means that it is up to the public to drive criminals out of their rat holes, but we need to be armed with the knowledge and tools to do this. Much of the discussion here is about reactionary justice which is fine, but the reality is that crime prevention is a public responsibility.
 
Really? I don't think so. Besides, if there is an "an authority with a vast amount of power that is unchecked & unquestioned" that is out there killing people, I'd say it's gangs that match that description. If I knew the police were carrying out targeted sweeps and eliminating gang members as a result of extensive surveillance, intelligence-gathering and careful deliberation (i.e. no shootings in public areas, no sign-offs until proper approvals are given), and only against those with repeated, demonstrated violent criminal involvement and numerous convictions for such offences, then that would be fine with me. I really have no pity for those people and would not lose a moment's sleep over it.
 
Until our gutless politicians give us laws that the majority of people would have no trouble abiding by, this type of shit is just going to carry on.

That area around the Eaton Centre is getting REAL BAD, you can feel it walking through the area, like any minute some shit is going to erupt, the day of Toronto the Good is over, and the people who make these candy-ass laws should wake up.
 
We should have a public hanging for these worthless shit holes and we should all throw rocks them before we hang them.

I think you've just hit upon a useful function for Dundas Square...
 
Really? I don't think so. Besides, if there is an "an authority with a vast amount of power that is unchecked & unquestioned" that is out there killing people, I'd say it's gangs that match that description.

ya, but then you're making them legal. it is wise not to lose one's cool in these situations. down south, they have these threats of death and it doesn't work at all. crime is actually higher. they don't care about death or their lives which is why they do these stupid things in the fist place. all it is is suicide by cop.


I really have no pity for those people and would not lose a moment's sleep over it.

true, but you still gotta make sure innocent people don't get shafted because of the process.

IMO, these dudes should be used for humanitarian purposes like sweeping for land mines in war torn regions or become the personal servants of those who's lives thy have have ruined. better yet, we can hook them up to treadmills and have them generate green energy.

put them to work. some people wanna die but nobody wants to work.

in the end, we should be figuring out how not to drop the glass rather than how to cleanup the pieces.

making 50¢ play in toronto wasn't the smartest of ideas. there's my 2¢.
 
i don't see miller getting re-elected.

With all the talk of people moving out, maybe there won't be anybody left in Toronto to re-elect Miller! :)
 
^ Thugs did not wait for the election of a left-leaning mayor with no control over the law, and then go on a thug-a-palooza.

Whatever's going on here has been a long time brewing. And a true solution will take even longer.

This violence is our answer to the race riots in Sydney and France. Didn't come out of nowhere.

i know, but people want a cleanup crew, not prevention. just look at some of the responses in this thread. this is a pile of shit we inherited from the harris slash and burn days, factor in the explosion of thug culture recently and you got a bunch of messed up kids between a rock and a hard place with visions of sugar plums and automatic guns dancing in their heads.

but to the people who forged the social conditions that caused this outcome, it doesn't matter to them because they see it as a self clean oven for the black community. they kill themselves and they are good capitalists in the process. harsh words but they're true. not to mention the politics that planted the seeds knew that the seeds wouldn't grow on their watch but rather fill the oppositions term with weeds that the public would attribute to the current ruling power and beg for the old powers that started it to come back..

it's a good political strategy - for those who are that evil.
 
only one problem, imagine that information is available and rival gang members findout info about someone that pissed them off and they decide to do a drive by shooting and end up killing innocent people in the crossfire. you are back at square one.
 
CP24's blurb box was reporting a spike in gun sales because of the proposed ban.
 
From the Star:

Link to article

T.O. like any big American city
Dec. 27, 2005. 07:38 AM
LINDA DIEBEL
STAFF REPORTER

It was a shock for Bobby to be standing outside Future Shop having a smoke one minute and having to hit the pavement to the sound of gunfire the next. But after he realized he was unhurt, he said he wasn't surprised that Boxing Day sales turned into holiday hell in Toronto.

"I've seen this kind of violence before because I used to live in the States," said Bobby, 27, interviewed shortly after the shootings yesterday, and unwilling to give his last name.

"It's really bad here now. Toronto — for me, it's just like any big American city. There's no difference. You can get killed just by walking down the street."

Like any American city.

Maybe it's not true technically. After all, shooting deaths in Toronto usually pale in comparison with most large U.S. cities. In New York City alone, there have been 1,454 shootings (not all fatal) so far this year. In our city, politicians say they are working to provide solutions to the gun violence which, as of yesterday, has claimed 52 victims in Toronto.

Recently, Mayor David Miller and Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant stood with Prime Minister Paul Martin when, during a visit to Toronto, he announced a ban on the possession of hand guns. The mayor praised the action, saying he "could not think of a more important announcement for the people of Toronto."

Moreover, as the politicians insist, ours is a relatively safe city.

But that's not how it feels anymore.

It's not how it must feel to the families of innocent bystanders gunned down on Yonge St. yesterday, in a shooting that left one dead and six injured, including an off-duty police officer. Among the wounded was Helen Yiu, 20. From Hong Kong and attending university here, she was visiting her aunt and uncle in Markham. She was shopping for gifts on a street that Torontonians like to boast is the longest in the world.

As officers on horseback guarded a crime scene that stretched for three blocks along the famous street, Toronto residents expressed their fear and disgust with the rising violence they say has transformed their city and shattered their sense of well-being.

"Can I move back to Calgary? I don't feel safe in Toronto," said Suzanne Armstrong, 36, who moved here six months ago to work in a dental centre.

"This kind of thing doesn't happen in Calgary."

Candace Knight, 45, her friend and co-worker, made a wry face and asked: "Can I go with you?"

It seems as if some awful line has been crossed in our city in 2005. It's not just the increase in shooting deaths over last year — up from a total of 27 in 2004 — it's that each crime has become more dramatic, the victims more innocent.

In 2005, we've seen a little boy, Shaquan Cadougan, 4, hit in the thigh, shin and hip by stray bullets in a shooting at Yonge and Finch. Now 5, he is still undergoing surgery and paying a terrible price.

At a playground behind a public housing unit, dozens of children outside on a summer evening witnessed the shooting in cold blood of Delroy Daring, 45, at Eglinton Ave. E. and Markham Rd. Earlier, two other men had been gunned down right across the street in front of a strip mall.

Then, in November, the city reacted with horror after a young man, Amon Beckles, was shot outside a Rexdale church where he was attending the funeral of a friend, another gunshot victim. Yesterday came another death and the wounding of several other people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The summer of the gun is stretching out to its miserable conclusion, seemingly eking out the last few drops of blood before the new year.

As the year's tally worsened day by day, politicians have blamed their opposition and other levels of government. Liberal MP Dan McTeague even pointed a finger at rapper 50 Cent, whose lyrics he argues promote violence and glamorize a gangster lifestyle. He fought unsuccessfully to have the artist barred from entering Canada for a recent tour, which included an appearance in Toronto.

Meanwhile, Canadians are in the midst of a federal election campaign. The Prime Minister says he recognizes that gun violence in the country's largest city is a pressing issue. Toronto police Chief Bill Blair, speaking to reporters after a recent meeting at Queen's Park, says he wants to see the violence addressed by federal politicians during the campaign because "it's a very important issue to the people of Toronto."

And yet, for all the political sturm und drang — for all the promises made by politicians to the people of Toronto about curbing gun violence — the police chief found himself yesterday, in Christmas suit and tie, at a police command centre at Yonge and Elm Sts., dealing with the aftermath of more violence.

His officers had cordoned off one of the busiest areas of Toronto. It's a stretch of Yonge St., that includes several electronics and music stores, a Pizza Pizza and, a little further north, the flashing lights of the Zanzibar Tavern, with its sign for "over 75 red-hot girls — all-nude."

Nearby, police officers set up a portable forensic unit and questioned potential witnesses in the street. One officer asked Matt, a youth who has been staying at a Toronto shelter, to report to nearby 52 Division in order to give a statement.

Matt, who also didn't want to give his last name, said he saw a man lying on the ground at Yonge and Gerrard Sts. "He was bleeding pretty badly," he said, adding the man was able to leave before police arrived.

"It is so bad in Toronto," said Matt, before leaving for the police station with three friends. "We are homeless and we don't feel safe. You are always wondering: `Am I going to get shot today? Is one of my buddies going to get shot today?'"

Blair met with his officers in the middle of a crime scene, in full view of Torontonians who have become increasingly pessimistic about their city.

"Nobody is surprised anymore," said cab driver Stephen Delon, 53, waiting to have dinner at a restaurant behind police lines. "This is what Toronto is like. But you can't be afraid. You live once, you die once. ... Maybe Toronto used to be a safe city but it's not anymore."

Still, there was a time, said another middle-aged man, that he would have brought his kids downtown on Boxing Day. Not anymore.

"I came by myself (today)," he said. "Crime is out of control in Toronto but you know what I think? I think the politicians don't care. They are all jumping on the bandwagon and saying they care, but they don't. It's all just talk."
 

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