Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

[kEiThZ]

The island airport is federal land. I'm not sure buildings at the airport get assessed and pay property tax.

The airports pays cash in-lieu of taxes. Aside from that, given that Porter is based in Toronto, has the bulk of its staff in Toronto and buys aircraft manufactured in the 416, the amount of economic activity that it generates for the city is most certainly not insignificant.

 

[rbt]

The airports pays cash in-lieu of taxes.

They opted out of these payments from 1998 through about 2008; and the port authority has decided to make payments based on customers carried (so take Pearson taxes, divide by Pearson passengers, multiply by Port Authority passengers) and you get a number -- roughly 80 cents per passenger.

Payments by land value/commercial tax rate for private interests of that land would have been about $37Million. Actual value paid thus far is $5Million and it went to court to get that amount.


FYI, City is currently, and rightfully, appealing the $5Million ruling. I use Porter for a handful of trips per year but I still don't think that (or any) airport should be subsidized by the city which hosts it. I would like to see all GTA airports paying the full commercial rate for their real-estate just as any private interest would be required.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ I stand corrected. However, given Porter's success, I don't think there'll be too many challenges working off that $37 million dollar tab over the next few years. I am all for the airport paying their fair share. In fact, I think the same should apply to VIA and Greyhound as well for their respective terminals....and Pearson (but that's not in the 416). Does anyone know if VIA pays to use the combined GO/VIA terminals? And do they pay anything to use Union station? Airports after all charge the airline landing fees and charge each passenger an airport improvement fee.

 

[adma]

Unfortunately when people cite the Chicago example, most of them are talking about Megis Field not Chicago Midway. Translating that to Toronto, maybe we should shutter the Island Airport and build an airport in the Annex.

Or more properly, stop Parc Downsview Park dead in its tracks.

 

[kEiThZ]

Or more properly, stop Parc Downsview Park dead in its tracks.

I thought of Downsview as analogous to Midway, except that Downsview is relatively further from our downtown and the urban area around it is not nearly as dense as what's around Midway in Chicago.

 

[adma]

Whether it's dense or not, it's still analogously boondocks-y relative to downtown.

 

[Swamp Thing]

"Analogously boondocks-y."

I love it!

 

[lead82]

actually downsview is about the same distance from downtown as midway is and both are on subway lines. I have been to chicago midway and the area around downsview is denser.

 

[jn_12]

Starting October 5th - 4 daily flights between Halifax and St. John's NFLD.

 

[sjc]

It appears (from the flight numbers and connection times) that the St. John's flights to Halifax will continue on to Ottawa and then Toronto without a need for a plane switch.

EDIT: It looks like Ottawa-Halifax will continuing with five flights a day this fall as well.

Porter Press Release

Highlights of the new schedule, with up to five daily year-round flights on each route, include:

· St. John’s-Halifax – 4 daily roundtrip flights
· St. John’s-Ottawa* – 4 daily roundtrip flights
· St. John’s-Toronto** – 3 daily roundtrip flights
· Halifax-Ottawa – 5 daily roundtrip flights
· Halifax-Toronto* – 4 daily roundtrip flights
* 1 stop
** 2 stops

EDIT2: Even with 2 stops, the YTZ-YYT flights aren't a lot longer than Westjet's. Air Canada and Westjet have a few nonstops, but they can be expensive and not always when you want to go. Porter's schedule appears to be even more competitive when you look at the options for YYT-YOW.

Don't forget that you get free drinks, so a longer flight means more drinks.

 

[casaguy]

I enjoyed a flawless return trip to Thunder Bay this weekend. The Porter experience as always was perfect (except for that silly ferry and except for the landings... see below). I was thrilled when this route was added and was very happy to see the flight to YQT about 95% full and the return trip was about 85% full.

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but for the record according to their in-flight magazine, future routes being considered are:

Timmins, Sudbury, Sault Ste. Marie, Detroit, Windsor, Cleveland, Cincinatti, Pittsburgh, Washington DC, Philadelphia and Boston.

Now, I could be called a seasoned flyer but I'm by no means an aviation expert. But to this layman, on both legs of the trip the pilot came in for a landing WAY, WAY, WAY TOO FAST and WAY TOO CROOKED and SLAMMED the plane into the tarmac. This afternoon the passengers on flight 634 screamed in panic as the Q400 bashed into the runway on the island airport. I'm sure these planes are meant to sustain major impact, but it was the kind of landing your gut tells you, uh, maybe someone should really go out and have a good once-over of the structure of the aircraft after that beating.

Anyways, the crew and pilot were all smiles and all was fine and forgotten in the end. But this is one of a very few times I heard actual terrified screaming from fellow passengers upon landing. I assume this maneovre was intentional by the pilot to fight off a crosswind?

 

[rbt]

Now, I could be called a seasoned flyer but I'm by no means an aviation expert. But to this layman, on both legs of the trip the pilot came in for a landing WAY, WAY, WAY TOO FAST and WAY TOO CROOKED and SLAMMED the plane into the tarmac.

Bad wind perhaps but I found the same with New York flights this week.

I fly Porter for 5 or so trips a year and simply don't see what all the fuss is about.

20 minutes in customs lines (uncommon at Pearson at 10pm), vibrating aircraft, uncomfortable seats, somewhat more expensive flights, cramped terminal (to get better shortly for sure), and long lines at other airports.

I've found Porter pilots to be more conservative about weather they will fly in even when Island Airport has perfect weather, than either West Jet or Air Canada. Perhaps it is due to limitations of the aircraft?


The snacks are good. Wine on the late flights is not bad even if it isn't good or Canadian for that matter (Jackson Triggs uses 70% grapes from non-Canadian sources). Food boxes are alright.


I will never be on a Porter flight longer than 90 minutes strictly due to aircraft seats, lack of plugs, and entertainment system. For short hauls it's okay and I will use it when the price is lower and the train doesn't go to the destination (VIA1 is by far my preferred option when time allows).

 

[gristle]

Now, I could be called a seasoned flyer but I'm by no means an aviation expert. But to this layman, on both legs of the trip the pilot came in for a landing WAY, WAY, WAY TOO FAST and WAY TOO CROOKED and SLAMMED the plane into the tarmac. This afternoon the passengers on flight 634 screamed in panic as the Q400 bashed into the runway on the island airport. I'm sure these planes are meant to sustain major impact, but it was the kind of landing your gut tells you, uh, maybe someone should really go out and have a good once-over of the structure of the aircraft after that beating.

In less than ideal weather the pilot will want to make sure the plane is on the ground and will stay on the ground. That might explain the harder-than-average landing.

 

[casaguy]

I've no doubt the pilot knew what he was doing. I wonder if pre-warning the passengers in a don't-worry-about-it sort of way would be a good idea here. I don't think it could hurt to say that, by the way, we might hit hard but don't worry, that's normal.

Another good example is warning the passengers about heavy air conditioning mist (which can look like smoke from a fire). Couldn't hurt to mention it whenever the plane is in the ideal conditions for this.

I spoke to a buddy of mine tonight who's been a pilot of the big boy jets all his life. He's also found Porter to make extra hard landings when he's on them. A smooth, touchless Air Canada style landing is rare with Porter... but does happen.

My pilot buddy agrees that in less than ideal windy weather situations that the pilot's first priority is to get the plane on the ground and KEEP IT THERE. However, it can feel rather violent and out of control for the passengers.

 

[ShonTron]

Indeed I feel the landings are a bit harder - perhaps you feel it more in a smaller aircraft?

THe only time I freaked out was on a Continental 737-900 on approach to Newark - getting really close to the landing, we hit an air pocket, making the plane rise, then drop fast. Though the plane itself landed on the runway fine.

Getting into Newark last week was a breeze - though the plane was quite late arriving. Being the only international arrival, customs was really easy to get through with no one else there - Midway was easy too, but I think that besides Porter, the only international flights they get are vacation charters and business jets (and Jetz - I saw one there).