Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup

sjc said:
Personally, I kind of liked the original name "Port George VI Airfield".
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The Whitney Port Airfield?
whitney-port.jpg
 
sjc said:
The Star decided, as well, to stir the pot this morning by recommending that they allow jets at the island.

Supposing that they allowed people to land jets at the island, what sorts of jets are there that can use a 4000' runway? Can business jets use such a short runway? Or maybe BAe-146s?
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I don't know of too many bizjets that could operate from a 4000ft runway. And the few that can would face some very uneconomical payload restrictions. The article is ridiculous. RJs would not be able to operate from YTZ. The Q400 is at the limit of what type and size of aircraft could operate effectively and economically from the Island.
 
Bah just extend the runway out into the Harbour/lake. I'd love to watch an A380 landing on the island. With any luck the first time such a heavy aircraft lands on the island the weight sinks the thing!

[/sarcasm]
 
sjc said:
It will be interesting to see if the new Q400X 90-seater will need a longer runway than the Q400.
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The 90 seater is of course still a concept. However, it'll require significantly heavier (and more powerful) engines. Add in the weight of the fuselage plug and it'll probably need a 5000 foot runway to be economical to operate (sufficient payload-range capability to reach Quebec City, etc.).
 
They go rather short distances, so don't they require very little fuel???
 
lordmandeep said:
They go rather short distances, so don't they require very little fuel???
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Fuel is still heavy. Throw in the weight of baggage and the passengers. It adds up. The problem in this situation is that the runway does not allow for maximum take off weight departure. Which means there's a trade-off between payload and range based on a weight limit reached by available take-off run distance. The Q400 has that today, which is why for example, it can't do Halifax direct from YTZ.
 
it'll probably need a 5000 foot runway to be economical to operate (sufficient payload-range capability to reach Quebec City, etc.).
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If it has the legs for Ottawa or Montreal, they could replace the regular Q400s on those high-volume routes, freeing up planes to use on other routes like Quebec.
 
kEiThZ said:
The 90 seater is of course still a concept. However, it'll require significantly heavier (and more powerful) engines. Add in the weight of the fuselage plug and it'll probably need a 5000 foot runway to be economical to operate (sufficient payload-range capability to reach Quebec City, etc.).
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Aircraft targets are set years in advance so various engineering groups know what they need to hit (missing is extremely expensive) but it is rare that they do significantly better than the minimums.

Unless the minimum design spec is border-line for fitting YTZ, anticipate that it will not.
 
I was able to take off a 777 in Microsoft flight simulator X at the city centre airport.

However you then stall and fall into the lake... :p

Its a fun game, likely be the closest most of us will get to flying a big plane.
 
sjc said:
The "Toronto Port Authority" Annual Meeting is this morning.


Apparently, one topic for discussion is a plan to rename the airport "Billy Bishop Airport". Even though there is already a Billy Bishop airport in Owen Sound.

Personally, I kind of liked the original name "Port George VI Airfield".

The Star decided, as well, to stir the pot this morning by recommending that they allow jets at the island.

Supposing that they allowed people to land jets at the island, what sorts of jets are there that can use a 4000' runway? Can business jets use such a short runway? Or maybe BAe-146s?
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Miller would like to name it Manfred Von Richthofen after the Red Baron, if he had his way.
 
lordmandeep said:
I was able to take off a 777 in Microsoft flight simulator X at the city centre airport.

However you then stall and fall into the lake... :p
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During the Ex they could make that ride part of the pay one price admission! Heck they could make a component of the splash park at Ontario Place!
 
I noticed this morning that they had the Blue Angels do a fly-by during the Port Authority AGM (at around 10am). I expect that was to show the potential benefits from allowing jets at the island.
 
sjc said:
I noticed this morning that they had the Blue Angels do a fly-by during the Port Authority AGM (at around 10am). I expect that was to show the potential benefits from allowing jets at the island.
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Today proved that jets can fly downtown and no one would notice ;)
 
rbt said:
Aircraft targets are set years in advance so various engineering groups know what they need to hit (missing is extremely expensive) but it is rare that they do significantly better than the minimums.

Unless the minimum design spec is border-line for fitting YTZ, anticipate that it will not.
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I am fully aware of how aircraft design works as an aerospace engineer. In this case though, Bombardier (or ATR or Embraer) aren't building the aircraft specifically for the YTZ scenario. They are building the Q400x and its competitors for the majority of operators operating from more conventional airfields. If they were building for YTZ, the most obvious solution would be to sacrifice a bit of fuel economy and four engine the aircraft like the Dash-7s that used to fly from the Island. Those aircraft could depart with max take-off weight without the whole runway. However, they were also louder and had higher emissions. So there are trade-offs, of course.

All that is not to say that Porter could not use the Q400x. I have a feeling that they will probably buy the aircraft (at minimum to deploy outside YTZ). However, they aren't the customer driving its design. We'll have to wait and see if Bombardier can wring out enough efficiencies and improvements to allow the Q400x to use the Island.

On a broader note...I'd like to see YTZ get a 1000 ft runway extension (over the current 3988 ft) so that Porter (and whoever else wants to service the Island) could get non-stop connections to further destinations. A 4600 ft runway would allow Porter to max out range-payload on the Q400.
 
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