Barrie Collingwood Railway (BCRY)

[ShonTron]

Where did this come from? Barrie actually wants to run a passenger train service to Collingwood all of a sudden? I thought the tracks were in lousy shape...

Though it’s still called Barrie-Collingwood Railway, it only operates between the CP Mainline at Utopia, Barrie, and Innisfil Beach Road (the stub of the former CN Beeton Sub). West of Utopia, the line is abandoned and partially removed.

 

[HuskyJet]

I live in Barrie— I think maybe one day a Barrie West station could be feasible, they’re planning a massive development by Essa/400 interchange, but I think that’s too close to Allandale Waterfront.

However, this idea makes more sense to me… with the “rail trail” they’re making on the old BCRW line— it’s only supposed to go up to 5th Line, and I think that’s by design, technically if Angus gets big enough, they could theoretically put a station off of 5th line and build a transit community around that!

I just came across this article a few days ago. TLDR; a Barrie city councillor is asking council to consider a "rail trolley" using the BCRY ROW to connect that Essa/Hwy 400 development to Allendale GO.

I have a hunch that conversation in council will die a quiet death....the notion of any light rail in Barrie feels like fantasy-land, to me. I am a fan of the idea (I'm overwhelmingly biased towards rail transit in my own perfect world), but I can't see the purchase and stand-up of LRT operations/equipment for a few KMs of track and maybe 3(?) stations surviving a cost-benefit analysis (sadly).

I'm curious to see what council's opinion on this will be....

 

[Bureaucromancer]

I have a hunch that conversation in council will die a quiet death....the notion of any light rail in Barrie feels like fantasy-land, to me. I am a fan of the idea (I'm overwhelmingly biased towards rail transit in my own perfect world), but I can't see the purchase and stand-up of LRT operations/equipment for a few KMs of track and maybe 3(?) stations surviving a cost-benefit analysis (sadly).

Almost certainly... BUT:

If costs on the low end of light modern streetcar can be assured there might just be something to this if extended downtown on a private ROW parallel to Lakeshore; and

This is the kind of query that can lead to more sensible proposals getting political attention if municipal staff take them seriously. Like an actual look at what Barrie West GO, Collingwood GO or Allendale - Downtown busway might do comparative to the shuttle.

 

[lenaitch]

I just came across this article a few days ago. TLDR; a Barrie city councillor is asking council to consider a "rail trolley" using the BCRY ROW to connect that Essa/Hwy 400 development to Allendale GO.

I have a hunch that conversation in council will die a quiet death....the notion of any light rail in Barrie feels like fantasy-land, to me. I am a fan of the idea (I'm overwhelmingly biased towards rail transit in my own perfect world), but I can't see the purchase and stand-up of LRT operations/equipment for a few KMs of track and maybe 3(?) stations surviving a cost-benefit analysis (sadly).

I'm curious to see what council's opinion on this will be....

I agree that it will likely die in somebody's in-tray. It is unlikely the developer will kick in, leaving the city and maybe province on the hook to connect a single new neighbourhood with the new transit hub. They are looking at ways to make 4000 new households fronting on Essa Rd. and Hwy 400 palatable. Taxpayers are unlikely to be willing to fund it.

Province to decide zoning for 'massive' 4,000-home development

'I think this gets things moving, and hopefully gets a shovel in the ground in the next couple of years' says councillor of proposal for former Barrie Fairgrounds

www.orilliamatters.com

In my recent news, the Barrie Curling Club is being told they will be "made whole" at the end of all of this, and I think some are assuming they will be able to stay. I think they are whistling past the graveyard.

There is no room for a private transit ROW paralleling Lakeshore unless they seriously cut into the parking for the park on the lake side, and I'm sure where they would be able to do a turn-back downtown.

This proposed new development could be served by bus transit for orders of magnitude less money.

 

[Natika33]

I know it's probably pie-in-the-sky, but I hope by some miracle I can one day commute from Toronto to Collingwood by rail to go skiing.

 

[micheal_can]

I agree that it will likely die in somebody's in-tray. It is unlikely the developer will kick in, leaving the city and maybe province on the hook to connect a single new neighbourhood with the new transit hub. They are looking at ways to make 4000 new households fronting on Essa Rd. and Hwy 400 palatable. Taxpayers are unlikely to be willing to fund it.

Province to decide zoning for 'massive' 4,000-home development

'I think this gets things moving, and hopefully gets a shovel in the ground in the next couple of years' says councillor of proposal for former Barrie Fairgrounds

www.orilliamatters.com

In my recent news, the Barrie Curling Club is being told they will be "made whole" at the end of all of this, and I think some are assuming they will be able to stay. I think they are whistling past the graveyard.

There is no room for a private transit ROW paralleling Lakeshore unless they seriously cut into the parking for the park on the lake side, and I'm sure where they would be able to do a turn-back downtown.

This proposed new development could be served by bus transit for orders of magnitude less money.

They used to have a rail line along the lakeshore. As soon as they could, it was removed. I highly doubt it would gain traction, whether it could be useful or not.

 

[HuskyJet]

This is the kind of query that can lead to more sensible proposals getting political attention if municipal staff take them seriously.

100% agreed. I feel the tram proposal is shooting for the stars but the city's examination/discussion, itself, is a litmus test for how they view the role of transit as Barrie grows (and by extension the future of BCRY within that vision). It'll be very telling how they turn this proposal down.

Like an actual look at what Barrie West GO, Collingwood GO or Allendale - Downtown busway might do comparative to the shuttle.

This would be great. I'm hoping this will be the beginning of a real, holistic look at BCRY and its value (or lack thereof) for passenger rail in a growing Simcoe County.

 

[Northern Light]

I agree that it will likely die in somebody's in-tray. It is unlikely the developer will kick in, leaving the city and maybe province on the hook to connect a single new neighbourhood with the new transit hub. They are looking at ways to make 4000 new households fronting on Essa Rd. and Hwy 400 palatable. Taxpayers are unlikely to be willing to fund it.

Province to decide zoning for 'massive' 4,000-home development

'I think this gets things moving, and hopefully gets a shovel in the ground in the next couple of years' says councillor of proposal for former Barrie Fairgrounds

www.orilliamatters.com

In my recent news, the Barrie Curling Club is being told they will be "made whole" at the end of all of this, and I think some are assuming they will be able to stay. I think they are whistling past the graveyard.

There is no room for a private transit ROW paralleling Lakeshore unless they seriously cut into the parking for the park on the lake side, and I'm sure where they would be able to do a turn-back downtown.

This proposed new development could be served by bus transit for orders of magnitude less money.

I don't see that route as a candidate for Light Rail, based on what's there now, anyway.

However, I do think there's a fairly strong case for extending GO to a station roughly at the 400. That's 1.65km - 1.8km (depending on which side of the highway you build) beyond Allandale, it allows for a much better connection to GO with a park 'n ride option for those coming from outlying areas to commute to points south.

It also sets up connections for any intercity bus service operating via 400.

Presuming that Barrie sold the portion of the line that GO would use to GO, for $1, while retaining running rights for freight operations, and GO invested in raising the track class to its standards, I see a real win-win proposition, but for hourly service, by GO (every 15m at peak), not for an LRT.

It also moves GO close to where it likely needs to be for a restored northern service connection to Orillia and points beyond. Its unlikely service would ever follow the waterfront route again. A more probable scenario sets up a connection using the 400/11 corridor and then greenfield.

It also sets the stage for a the longer term idea of the service to Collingwood.

Its also relatively low cost.

*****

When Barrie is ready for an LRT; several years from now, I see Bayfield as the logical first candidate. It connects to downtown, and to a lot of retail in its more suburban context. After Bayfield, A connection from Bayfield to Allandale would seem the way to go to me; though I'm not sure which route I would choose.

 

[micheal_can]

A stop near the 400 does make sense.

 

[lenaitch]

I don't see that route as a candidate for Light Rail, based on what's there now, anyway.

However, I do think there's a fairly strong case for extending GO to a station roughly at the 400. That's 1.65km - 1.8km (depending on which side of the highway you build) beyond Allandale, it allows for a much better connection to GO with a park 'n ride option for those coming from outlying areas to commute to points south.

It also sets up connections for any intercity bus service operating via 400.

Presuming that Barrie sold the portion of the line that GO would use to GO, for $1, while retaining running rights for freight operations, and GO invested in raising the track class to its standards, I see a real win-win proposition, but for hourly service, by GO (every 15m at peak), not for an LRT.

It also moves GO close to where it likely needs to be for a restored northern service connection to Orillia and points beyond. Its unlikely service would ever follow the waterfront route again. A more probable scenario sets up a connection using the 400/11 corridor and then greenfield.

It also sets the stage for a the longer term idea of the service to Collingwood.

Its also relatively low cost.

*****

When Barrie is ready for an LRT; several years from now, I see Bayfield as the logical first candidate. It connects to downtown, and to a lot of retail in its more suburban context. After Bayfield, A connection from Bayfield to Allandale would seem the way to go to me; though I'm not sure which route I would choose.

One problem with an extension to near the 400 is there is no space without significant expropriation, and a lot of the property along the corridor/Tiffin St. is active employment land which the city says it is sorely lacking. Additionally, if part of the intent is to draw off road traffic, I'm not sure whatever is planned for CR90/Dunlop St. If they were to extend to the west, I would go further, towards CR27. I assume a lot of the land is still employment land, but much of it past Veterans is green or brown field.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Near the 400 doesn't really improve access to the 400 though unless you want to build dedicated off-ramps. The layout of the interchanges in the area means a GO station at the 400 would be pretty isolated from road access to the highway itself.

 

[Northern Light]

Near the 400 doesn't really improve access to the 400 though unless you want to build dedicated off-ramps. The layout of the interchanges in the area means a GO station at the 400 would be pretty isolated from road access to the highway itself.

You're 800M from the Essa Road exit; taking for granted the station would be parking oriented and have a driveway, I'm not sure I see the distance as untenable. Though, I also don't see a problem with a dedicated off-ramp system, except that it adds costs.

Also, if one envisions the Fair Grounds as redeveloped; then there will be a street grid across those lands, which would shorten the distance to the parking entry point to ~650M or less.

 

[innsertnamehere]

yes, but that distance puts it effectively no closer to the 400 than Allandale is. Allendale as it is today is already only 1km or so from the highway. I just don't see it as a compelling investment short of going all out and building a direct freeway connection, which is $$$.

Honestly the bigger transportation gap in Northern Simcoe at this point is connections to Collingwood / Wasaga Beach, which has some of the worst highway access in the province right now. MTO really needs to look at facilitating better highway access and potentially even bringing regular GO service up, though last mile would be a problem given the location of the rail corridor.

Right now all MTO talks about is a Stayner / Collingwood Bypass and maybe widening 26 to four lanes.. I think they need to look at bringing a 4-lane freeway connection to the area over the long term and start protecting land for it right now, ideally designed to facilitate rail connections as well (i.e. Collingwood bypass provides land to extend the rail line directly to Blue Mountain).

 

[Northern Light]

Honestly the bigger transportation gap in Northern Simcoe at this point is connections to Collingwood / Wasaga Beach, which has some of the worst highway access in the province right now. MTO really needs to look at facilitating better highway access and potentially even bringing regular GO service up, though last mile would be a problem given the location of the rail corridor.

I disagree as I usually do, when you propose more highways to everywhere. Its the old story of ruining the very thing that attracted you to a place.

I support the extension of GO to Collingwood/Wasaga area; last mile can be done by buses and/or other infra ( details tbd). The extension from Allandale by one stop, is a first step in that direction, a down payment.

The thing is, to jump one station further, when I look at a map, I assume that's Angus, and that's 15km more track away, and actually requires some relaying of track as well.

That's not only a lot more expensive, I don't think the business case is there is to support it in the near term.

To get to the next major N-S road (beyond Angus) would be Airport Road which is a further 20km of track, all of it total reconstruction.

The choice here is to drive the future business case by bolstering ridership and shaving 2km off the future rebuild. Meanwhile, the freight operation gets 2km of dramatically upgraded track.

 

[dowlingm]

The thing about extending GO beyond Allandale is that you then hit a number of closely spaced grade crossings. The impact to traffic congestion and noise from anything more than a trivial number of daily movements would presumably be unpopular with local councillors.

It's not like moving the storage tracks to a yard west of 400 would free up prime development land either, since the GO tracks *and* the BCRY spur would need to remain behind anything built on that, and a busy road in front.