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Baby, we got a bubble!?

30 units are on the market for rent today.

Some have been on there for 2-3 months, most over $3,000 to $7,500 ( for that kind of rent go over to Ritz where guys have doubled their investment if they bought at launch )

900 units at Maple Leaf Square

Vacancy 3%, now thats high for core condos, usually approx 1%

Maple Leaf Square started occupancy in late April.

Once you have a condo lifestyle hard to go back to apt, unless you have too.
 
New Zealand or Florida?

either way, that's a good price.

if it weren't for punitive US taxes, i would consider buying there since rates are at historic lows with available fixed 25/30/35/40-year terms and fairly low prices.

i still believe there will be further price declines in the US once the moratorium on foreclosures is removed; however, there is greater upside there than in Canada

Florida. go to www.realtor.com nice retirement play , not an investment this time.
 
Florida. go to www.realtor.com nice retirement play , not an investment this time.

3 major red flags:


1. Currency risk
2. Punitive property tax to foreign residents
3. Absence of real community or stable renter base can easily reduce values further

If CG is making personal use of it though the calculation is quite different.
 
30 units are on the market for rent today.

Some have been on there for 2-3 months, most over $3,000 to $7,500 ( for that kind of rent go over to Ritz where guys have doubled their investment if they bought at launch )

900 units at Maple Leaf Square

Vacancy 3%, now thats high for core condos, usually approx 1%

Maple Leaf Square started occupancy in late April.

Once you have a condo lifestyle hard to go back to apt, unless you have too.

A vacancy of 3% would suggest that all 900 units are rentals. I thought it was closer to 100 (as per that Remax report earlier in the thread)
 
30 units are on the market for rent today.

Some have been on there for 2-3 months, most over $3,000 to $7,500 ( for that kind of rent go over to Ritz where guys have doubled their investment if they bought at launch )





George: the initial Ritz sales were in 2005 or 2006 were they not? Hi end product is what has gone up the most and Ritz was one of the earliest projects except for Trump (which had a lengthly difficult time getting off the market. So I believe that Ritz was one of the very early high end projects (condo hotels) and the prices of all high end went up significantly (though not doubling). In fact, it is precisely this fact which can potentially lead to a significant downing of price. That said, the later projects all other things being equal will be harder hit since they are at a higher price point.

As well, they were offering $150000 and I believe at one point they were even offering $250000 over 10 years to stay at Ritz hotels around the world as incentives though I don't know if that is still the case.

75% is the number quoted of sales. I imagine that when Ritz broke ground was before the 2008 meltdown (since it takes about 2 to 3 years to build and they would have had to have 60% sales presumably minimum to get financing before breaking ground). So 15% more has been sold in the 2+ years of construction. Unless there is a marked pickup in sales (I would expect some pickup because it is ready and people can view the condo and move in shortly), I view 25% residual as a good indication that sales are not moving that well and this despite that they are heavily advertising.

Finally, the Ritz I believe is at about $1000/foot. Trump, Shangrila are at $1100 approx and the 4 Seasons over $1500/sq. ft. I thought Ritz came out at $600/sq. ft but maybe it was $500/sq.ft; I believe Shangrila was introduced at around $800 approximately. I don't know Trump. 4 Seasons I believe started at $1200 or possibly more. My point is once completed, I am sure the Ritz just has the advantage of hitting the market first and therefore they come along for the ride up more. I still believe the other will be worth the same amount more or less as the Ritz so the Ritz buyers are less exposed (except for the 4 Seasons which will be worth more longer term: Yorkville location) but that all can decrease.

Ritz is benefitting from 4 to 5 years of Toronto growth in prices. Also, these are comparatively large units and have no balconies and I would think it may not be as appealing once people see it. However, I may be wrong.
Incidently George, having purchased 3 years ago a small unit at Shangrila, I would not be suprised that it is worth what I paid for it (in the $850/sq. ft range vs. $1150/sq. ft which builder now wishes for it)
 
A vacancy of 3% would suggest that all 900 units are rentals. I thought it was closer to 100 (as per that Remax report earlier in the thread)

i'm sure there are more rental units than just the 100 as some owners don't list on MLS system ... but i don't think all 900 are.
40-50% investor units # has been thrown around
 

George, I really don't agree with this 10% figure is you are referring to. year on year price continues to fall. True it is up 10% now but it was about 16% a few months ago. Combined with escalating prices in the latter part of 2009, unless the trend reverses, this 10% number will just decline towards zero over the next few months.
Given the context of the article, to pull out that one line is really showing a huge bias (not that the rest of us don't do that also) and really goes against the whole thrust/context of the article.
 

the full article ...

Move to suburbs can’t offset condo sales slump

August 24, 2010
Tony Wong
BUSINESS REPORTER

Earlier this year Julia Rudberg purchased a new condominium in downtown Markham. It was a move she likely wouldn’t have considered only a few years earlier.

“When you think of condo living, you think of downtown Toronto, not the suburbs,†says Rudberg, a 48-year-old nurse. “But if you look at the town today, there’s a lot more happening than before.â€

In what builders are saying may be the sign of an emerging trend, nearly half, or 46 per cent, of new condominiums purchased in July were in the suburbs. Traditionally, the city of Toronto commands an 80-per-cent share of all highrise sales.

All the more remarkable is that highrise projects in bedroom communities such as Markham, Brampton and Pickering were few and far between 10 years ago. Single detached homes have been the bread and butter of the suburbs, accounting for more than 80 per cent of new home sales.

But the Greater Golden Horseshoe Growth Plan, which touts higher densification for the 905 region, combined with affordability issues and a greater acceptance of highrise living, have made condos desirable for many suburban buyers.

Rudberg says she purchased her condo, the site of a former farmer’s field, because it was within walking distance to stores and transit. “The infrastructure is there, and you’re not in the middle of nowhere anymore,†she said.

While the trend is positive for condo builders who have trouble finding sites in the downtown core, the pickup in highrise sales in the suburbs was not enough to offset an overall decline in home sales.

According to figures released by the Building Industry and Land Development Association, new home sales took a beating in July, down 42 per cent overall. Most of that drop was in the more costly single detached sector.

“New home sales remain soft, with a big difference in the low-rise and highrise sectors,†said housing analyst Will Dunning.

Highrise sales slipped by 10 per cent in July to 1,222 over last year’s 1,358. But prices for an average condo remained up by 10 per cent to $430,782, compared with $391,673 last July.

A lack of inventory and land available for low rise saw sales drop significantly by 65 per cent to 678 sales, compared with 1,924. The average price for a low rise home is now up 9.2 per cent from last year to $489,088.

Another reason for slowing low rise home-sales is that the 905 economy is weaker than the 416 economy, which has more high-paying jobs such as those in the financial sector, said Dunning.

Nearly two-thirds of sales in July were in condos, compared with the norm of about 50 per cent, said BILD. Analysts such as Dunning have repeatedly warned that as more people rush to condos, there is a danger of overbuilding in the sector.

Tighter mortgage regulations and the impact of a new Harmonized Sales Tax that came into effect the beginning of July are expected to continue to hobble the new home market in the second half of the year.

The resale market, meanwhile, has already been showing significant signs of slowing, with sales in the Toronto area down by 29 per cent in the first two weeks of August.
 
George, I am not sure what your point is of the article. That US dollar and Gold are going up because everyone is worried about the worst report for US housing in 15 years? Surely you are not going to suggest this supports your argument that while the US is having major problems, this is a good thing for Canadian real estate unless you are of the belief that foreign investors will buy up Canadian real estate for Canadian stability and a belief they will make money on Canadian dollar appreciation.
Could you please elaborate.
 
You got it ! International investors do not buy the US like they used too. Canada being mainly resource and the strength of our buck are speaking loud and clear on how the world not only views our real estate sector, but other markets to invest in. They love Canada folks.
 

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