Aviation in Ontario

[Tim MacDonald]

Good on you to post about this. It is something I have often been concerned about, and it has made me reluctant to fly, and if I do fly in the city, to stay low.

Also my drone went in the lake up north, and once I dried it out, it hasn't been quite as stable, though it still flies. Unclear whether I need to let it go and get a new one.

I hope to join you all in getting some flights in and sharing on UT, I've just been slow to move on it.

Fresh water is a little more forgiving than salt water. Is the drone throwing any error messages on screen? What kind of instability are you experiencing? Maybe a it needs a recalibration for certain things or dirt has gotten into the lenses surrounding some of the sensors.

I have sent back brand new drones that display any type of flight control anomalies. It actually took me three attempts before I found a Mini3pro that I found to have a good camera and no bad flight habits. It is still a good airframe and my primary flying unit for the last two years although I have been flying my Mini2 more lately.

At the very least, I'd probably replace the battery on the one that went into the lake and I'm not so sure I would trust that aircraft long term.

 

[UrbanAffair]

Fresh water is a little more forgiving than salt water. Is the drone throwing any error messages on screen? What kind of instability are you experiencing? Maybe a it needs a recalibration for certain things or dirt has gotten into the lenses surrounding some of the sensors.

I have sent back brand new drones that display any type of flight control anomalies. It actually took me three attempts before I found a Mini3pro that I found to have a good camera and no bad flight habits. It is still a good airframe and my primary flying unit for the last two years although I have been flying my Mini2 more lately.

At the very least, I'd probably replace the battery on the one that went into the lake and I'm not so sure I would trust that aircraft long term.

I did a very long drying session, took everything apart, and replaced the battery. Seemed to be normal after that, just slightly odd flight stability.
Yeah, I may look to replacing it, but I need to take it for a real flight first in a rural area to determine if there are significant issues.

 

[TwinHuey]

The only other pilots I can think of @TwinHuey are @JJTheJetPln @NW87 and one other but can't recall their handle. Searched for it but didn't find it.

Man, that CL215 absolutely smoked that Mini3pro! It appears to have hit on the front starboard side motor as the nose of the Mini3pro was facing almost perpendicular to the CL215 with little forward movement. It doesn't take much to punch a hole in the leading edge. It certainly seems like a one in a million event for it to be at the exact right altitude to punch through. Slightly higher or lower and it would have glanced off and traveled above or below the wing.

Slim to no chance for that Mini3pro to have been ingested into the engine as those props would have made short work of it. Bad news for that drone operator as there would have certainly been a TFR issued (don't forget TFRs in our airspace apply to us in the sub 250g sphere as well as it covers ALL flight ops) and we are still bound by certain CARS pertaining to not endangering other aircraft movements/safety and not endangering others (the so called "Don't do anything stupid rule"). Folks that fly near the CN Tower and Island airport have to be super careful as it is easy to get caught in some unexpected winds aloft -particularly at the higher altitudes - and no geo fence is going to overturn the laws of physics. Since that area is already an Authorization zone, operating in that area means you're held to a higher account if you eff up.

Did anyone do any flying this weekend? I only managed 12 minutes over two flights yesterday. Of course I'm looking at the sketchy, miserable weather as I drop off the wife and little one and head to work. I won't see anything new or noteworthy I say to myself. Sure enough I pass a new Community housing project on Lakeshore in Clarkson that has broken ground! I turn around, grab my Mini2 (I forgot how much fun that thing is to fly after flying the 3pro for so long) and shoot that and a couple of other projects. I thought about shooting Voya and Parkside village this afternoon but the winds were just too strong for my liking. Well, that's the norm for January - winds, precip and sub zero temps!

Happy flying everyone.

Geez Tim, your analysis of the drone / wing impact is incredible. You missed your calling. You should have been an accident investigator with TSB.

For sure, it's a one in a million event, but it happened. Amazing that the drone was recovered inside the wing structure. Maybe not so amazing for the owner if the FBI uses it to identify them.

Also fortunate it did not damage / jam any of the aileron structural elements / control linkages, just aft of where it punched through (again, one in a million).

While most of the UT drone pilots are likely aware and fly with caution over the downtown core, for those who are new to drone ops I should point out that helicopters do not always fly the designated approach departure corridors to YTZ. For example EMS helicopters transiting between either of the downtown hospitals can fly direct and be at drone height or below within a couple kilometres of the airport. We can't rely on the DJI geo fence to ensure we're safe.

The lines are only to demonstrate a couple routes the EMS helicopters may take. Depending on point of departure and wind, they can approach from any direction.

Thanks @hawc, I borrowed this DJI image from one of your posts.

In certain situations, the consequences of foreign object damage to a helicopter can be more severe than those to a fixed-wing aircraft.

The achilles heel of a helicopter is the tail rotor. The EMS A139 tail rotor, similar to other helicopters, is constructed of honeycomb. You can damage it with little more than hand applied pressure. I'm certain it would not survive impact with a 249g drone.

The corrective action for an in flight tail rotor failure is to immediately shut down both engines.

Again, one in a million, but....

I'm not suggesting we don't fly our drones over the downtown core. Just that we need to be cautious.

 

[JJTheJetPln]

The only other pilots I can think of @TwinHuey are @JJTheJetPln @NW87 and one other but can't recall their handle. Searched for it but didn't find it.

Man, that CL215 absolutely smoked that Mini3pro! It appears to have hit on the front starboard side motor as the nose of the Mini3pro was facing almost perpendicular to the CL215 with little forward movement. It doesn't take much to punch a hole in the leading edge. It certainly seems like a one in a million event for it to be at the exact right altitude to punch through. Slightly higher or lower and it would have glanced off and traveled above or below the wing.

Slim to no chance for that Mini3pro to have been ingested into the engine as those props would have made short work of it. Bad news for that drone operator as there would have certainly been a TFR issued (don't forget TFRs in our airspace apply to us in the sub 250g sphere as well as it covers ALL flight ops) and we are still bound by certain CARS pertaining to not endangering other aircraft movements/safety and not endangering others (the so called "Don't do anything stupid rule"). Folks that fly near the CN Tower and Island airport have to be super careful as it is easy to get caught in some unexpected winds aloft -particularly at the higher altitudes - and no geo fence is going to overturn the laws of physics. Since that area is already an Authorization zone, operating in that area means you're held to a higher account if you eff up.

Did anyone do any flying this weekend? I only managed 12 minutes over two flights yesterday. Of course I'm looking at the sketchy, miserable weather as I drop off the wife and little one and head to work. I won't see anything new or noteworthy I say to myself. Sure enough I pass a new Community housing project on Lakeshore in Clarkson that has broken ground! I turn around, grab my Mini2 (I forgot how much fun that thing is to fly after flying the 3pro for so long) and shoot that and a couple of other projects. I thought about shooting Voya and Parkside village this afternoon but the winds were just too strong for my liking. Well, that's the norm for January - winds, precip and sub zero temps!

Happy flying everyone.

I remember reading about that waterbomber being hit by a drone. I immediately sent the article to my friends who also have drones, and we discussed it in length.

We all agreed TFR's are so important, and even knowing where you can and can't fly are also equally important. Those with drones need to understand that this is NOT an area that you want to be operating an aircraft in. I don't care if this is your livelihood or will generate money. People have lost everything, some may have lost their lives. It's extremely selfish that someone would fly a drone in this area, and this is karma for them in a way.

That being said, I haven't actually been able to fly very much if at all since work has had me swamped for the last couple of months. By the looks of it, I won't be able to fly until things settle down closer to spring. I am looking forward to resuming my updates with the condos in my area, as well as the HMLRT, and Mississauga Road bridge once the weather is warmer.

 

[lenaitch]

Refresh my memory; have they identified the pilot/owner of that UAV?

Like many other devices that operate essentially unregulated within a regulated space, if the US laws are similar to ours, there is no requirement that the machine be registered or the operator licenced. To me, that is a huge gap when you consider the potential implications.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

Refresh my memory; have they identified the pilot/owner of that UAV?

Like many other devices that operate essentially unregulated within a regulated space, if the US laws are similar to ours, there is no requirement that the machine be registered or the operator licenced. To me, that is a huge gap when you consider the potential implications.

Authorities probably know who owned it but might take their time making a case to prove who the pilot was operating it. It was certainly a dumb move operating in that airspace and that was likely the one area, next to the tailplane, that could do the most physical damage. Remember that when the regs were settled upon back in 2018 IIRC it wasn't because there wouldn't be any damage at all on a sub 250g strike but that the damage wouldn't result in catastrophic damage. Collisions like this are extremely rare but you just can't regulate stupid. I think back to the York Regional Police officer who was operating near buttonville a number of years agp right in the approach profile when I think a Cessna Skyhawk smoked the drone. It was a headshaking display of how not to operate.

@TwinHuey is right - be extremely careful when flying downtown, especially with all the chopper traffic. I'm always extremely careful when operating in Erin Mills because of Credit Valley Hospital. That hospital sees regular traffic. It doesn't hurt to check Flightradar24 to see what's in the air but that's not fool proof.

 

[lenaitch]

Authorities probably know who owned it but might take their time making a case to prove who the pilot was operating it. It was certainly a dumb move operating in that airspace and that was likely the one area, next to the tailplane, that could do the most physical damage. Remember that when the regs were settled upon back in 2018 IIRC it wasn't because there wouldn't be any damage at all on a sub 250g strike but that the damage wouldn't result in catastrophic damage. Collisions like this are extremely rare but you just can't regulate stupid. I think back to the York Regional Police officer who was operating near buttonville a number of years agp right in the approach profile when I think a Cessna Skyhawk smoked the drone. It was a headshaking display of how not to operate.

@TwinHuey is right - be extremely careful when flying downtown, especially with all the chopper traffic. I'm always extremely careful when operating in Erin Mills because of Credit Valley Hospital. That hospital sees regular traffic. It doesn't hurt to check Flightradar24 to see what's in the air but that's not fool proof.

No doubt there are may competent operators but I've seen young kids flying these things. When you can find them under the Christmas tree, on Amazon or places like Radio Shack (formerly) or hobby stores, without some basic level of mandatory training, even if it it stoops to the level of a Pleasure Craft Operating card acknowledging that they know there are, in fact, rules to follow, or some kind of bar code, data chip, or something embedded in the device, rare events with significant potential and limited investigative recourse are going to continue.

it's like e-bikes and all the other battery powered mobility devices. Lots of competent people operating them, but some not and the mass of some of those things is not to be trifled with.

I wasn't aware of the YRPS incident. They would be a commercial operator and assuming, a heavier machine. Seriously should have known better. If that can happen to a licenced operator, imagine what the unlicenced ones are up to.

Rant off - it's just a thing with me.

 

[JJTheJetPln]

No doubt there are may competent operators but I've seen young kids flying these things. When you can find them under the Christmas tree, on Amazon or places like Radio Shack (formerly) or hobby stores, without some basic level of mandatory training, even if it it stoops to the level of a Pleasure Craft Operating card acknowledging that they know there are, in fact, rules to follow, or some kind of bar code, data chip, or something embedded in the device, rare events with significant potential and limited investigative recourse are going to continue.

it's like e-bikes and all the other battery powered mobility devices. Lots of competent people operating them, but some not and the mass of some of those things is not to be trifled with.

I wasn't aware of the YRPS incident. They would be a commercial operator and assuming, a heavier machine. Seriously should have known better. If that can happen to a licenced operator, imagine what the unlicenced ones are up to.

Rant off - it's just a thing with me.

It's always frustrating when an inexperienced person does absolutely no research on drone operation, and ruins it for those who have spent thousands on the hobby to have it ruined. So I completely share your frustrations in your rant 100%.

I try to be as responsible as possible. Maintaining VLOS at all times, staying away from areas where birds are, avoiding areas if I can't fly in them, and so on.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

Here is the TC report on the Collision for those interested:

Air transportation safety investigation report A21O0069 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

www.tsb.gc.ca

For some reason I thought it happened a lot longer ago than August of 2021.

 

[TwinHuey]

Here is the TC report on the Collision for those interested:

Air transportation safety investigation report A21O0069 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

www.tsb.gc.ca

For some reason I thought it happened a lot longer ago than August of 2021.

Thanks for sharing Tim, first I've heard of this.

WOW!!

Those drones can weigh as much as 6 kg. Imagine if it had hit the windscreen...

The YRP officer flying the drone held a valid Transport Canada Pilot Certificate for drones - Advanced Operations.

I agree with @lenaitch, they seriously should have known better.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

It likely would have been fatal if it struck the windshield. The Matrice line is a beast! The thing that shocked me the most is that here we had a RPAS Advanced Certificated pilot just launch and essentially said "Yeah, I know I should call someone but my operation is so important there is no time." Thank God this guy didn't fly manned aircraft. He even had a ROC but never thought to even reach out. Never skip your preflight checklist guys. Always take a beat before launching to make sure everything is right. I even say mine out loud even though I am the only one around!

Fortunately, these incidents are rare. It certainly didn't help that there was a law enforcement officer with an advanced ticket effing up in such an egregious way. It is truly bizarre that the pilot was fined just $1,000 for such a serious collision with no fines being levied on the organization - YRP dept. Consider that the one guy that was caught near YOW had a $3,000 fine - and he didn't hit anything.

 

[Tim MacDonald]

So I was poking around looking for some files for work and came across these photos I took during my ramp days from 1991-1994. These are just some dirty scans from what I think were K64 35mm slides. Seems to be an odd collection so I don't know why these got the scan treatment. Anyway, some of you might enjoy them.

This was the first visit of this aircraft after it came out of desert storage. If I remember correctly, Boeing delivered it in 1991 and AC sent it straight to the desert for a year or two.

Anybody remember when Singapore had their short lived (maybe 2-3 times a week) service via Europe?

Air China used to run their 747sp here via Vancouver in the mid to late 80s but I think this was actually a JFK snowstorm diversion.

This was definitely a snowstorm diversion from the night before.

I'm not sure when this was taken but I think it was a regular during that time period of early 1990s

I had forgotten Korean ran MD11s here. It was snowing pretty hard, unfortunately.
***edited to add that this was also one of the first MD11s. After it left the Korean Air fleet, it ended life as a freighter in Shanghai in 2009 operating the first flight for a Zimbabwean cargo outfit and overran the runway because the crew failed to engage the throttles properly. Killed 3 of four onboard.

Back when US carriers ran heavies into YYZ. AA181 to ORD-LAX. I used to frequently start my shift with this flight. This is early spring 1991 or 1992 as there is still structural steel going up on the T3 satellite terminal.
***Edited to add that this was N101AA - The first DC-10 produced.***

AA 727 shorty arriving at B11. Loved this livery especially on a brand new MD-80 or 757 as it approached the gate in the late afternoon sun. The shine was unreal!

To illustrate the point, this was a brand new 757 delivered the day before back in 1992 I think at the Alliance Fort worth airport and displayed during the air show there.

Brand new CAIL A320

AR 747 at gate 41. Wednesdays and Sundays if I recall via JFK. They eventually switched to an A310 and then contracted with AV Atlantic for 727s via Miami

 

[NW87]

I have never flown above 400ft, anything over that is getting into most general aviation altitudes. I see people fly drones around the CN tower, which is certainly over people and there are lots of tourist & medical helicopters around, probably not wise. Just like Niagara Falls is completely of limits due to helicopter activity.

The link below summaries everything. Notice how it say you 'should', and not you must.
Micro Drones Explained (Link to a infographic on Microdrones)

 

[NW87]

So I was poking around looking for some files for work and came across these photos I took during my ramp days from 1991-1994. These are just some dirty scans from what I think were K64 35mm slides. Seems to be an odd collection so I don't know why these got the scan treatment. Anyway, some of you might enjoy them.
View attachment 628486
This was the first visit of this aircraft after it came out of desert storage. If I remember correctly, Boeing delivered it in 1991 and AC sent it straight to the desert for a year or two.
View attachment 628490
Anybody remember when Singapore had their short lived (maybe 2-3 times a week) service via Europe?
View attachment 628491
Air China used to run their 747sp here via Vancouver in the mid to late 80s but I think this was actually a JFK snowstorm diversion.
View attachment 628492
This was definitely a snowstorm diversion from the night before.
View attachment 628493
I'm not sure when this was taken but I think it was a regular during that time period of early 1990s
View attachment 628495
I had forgotten Korean ran MD11s here. It was snowing pretty hard, unfortunately.
***edited to add that this was also one of the first MD11s. After it left the Korean Air fleet, it ended life as a freighter in Shanghai in 2009 operating the first flight for a Zimbabwean cargo outfit and overran the runway because the crew failed to engage the throttles properly. Killed 3 of four onboard.
View attachment 628496
Back when US carriers ran heavies into YYZ. AA181 to ORD-LAX. I used to frequently start my shift with this flight. This is early spring 1991 or 1992 as there is still structural steel going up on the T3 satellite terminal.
***Edited to add that this was N101AA - The first DC-10 produced.***
View attachment 628497
AA 727 shorty arriving at B11. Loved this livery especially on a brand new MD-80 or 757 as it approached the gate in the late afternoon sun. The shine was unreal!
View attachment 628500
To illustrate the point, this was a brand new 757 delivered the day before back in 1992 I think at the Alliance Fort worth airport and displayed during the air show there.
View attachment 628498
Brand new CAIL A320
View attachment 628499
AR 747 at gate 41. Wednesdays and Sundays if I recall via JFK. They eventually switched to an A310 and then contracted with AV Atlantic for 727s via Miami

Great Photos Tim, the good ole' days. Love the old AA bare metal look and old Air Canada colours.

 

[TwinHuey]

So I was poking around looking for some files for work and came across these photos I took during my ramp days from 1991-1994. These are just some dirty scans from what I think were K64 35mm slides. Seems to be an odd collection so I don't know why these got the scan treatment. Anyway, some of you might enjoy them.
View attachment 628486
This was the first visit of this aircraft after it came out of desert storage. If I remember correctly, Boeing delivered it in 1991 and AC sent it straight to the desert for a year or two.
View attachment 628490
Anybody remember when Singapore had their short lived (maybe 2-3 times a week) service via Europe?
View attachment 628491
Air China used to run their 747sp here via Vancouver in the mid to late 80s but I think this was actually a JFK snowstorm diversion.
View attachment 628492
This was definitely a snowstorm diversion from the night before.
View attachment 628493
I'm not sure when this was taken but I think it was a regular during that time period of early 1990s
View attachment 628495
I had forgotten Korean ran MD11s here. It was snowing pretty hard, unfortunately.
***edited to add that this was also one of the first MD11s. After it left the Korean Air fleet, it ended life as a freighter in Shanghai in 2009 operating the first flight for a Zimbabwean cargo outfit and overran the runway because the crew failed to engage the throttles properly. Killed 3 of four onboard.
View attachment 628496
Back when US carriers ran heavies into YYZ. AA181 to ORD-LAX. I used to frequently start my shift with this flight. This is early spring 1991 or 1992 as there is still structural steel going up on the T3 satellite terminal.
***Edited to add that this was N101AA - The first DC-10 produced.***
View attachment 628497
AA 727 shorty arriving at B11. Loved this livery especially on a brand new MD-80 or 757 as it approached the gate in the late afternoon sun. The shine was unreal!
View attachment 628500
To illustrate the point, this was a brand new 757 delivered the day before back in 1992 I think at the Alliance Fort worth airport and displayed during the air show there.
View attachment 628498
Brand new CAIL A320
View attachment 628499
AR 747 at gate 41. Wednesdays and Sundays if I recall via JFK. They eventually switched to an A310 and then contracted with AV Atlantic for 727s via Miami

Great shots Tim! Love those 747's.

In early 2019, we flew Lufthansa 747-400 to Frankfurt (connecting to Malaga). We sat upper deck.

Shortly after takeoff the Captain welcomed us aboard "The Queen of the Skies".

Flying in the 747 felt like experiencing a piece of history.