Atheists hope (don't pray) to bring ads to Toronto (G&M)

[urbanboom]

how is the ad stupid?

you can have a miserable or great life believing in god or not. the ad is telling you to enjoy your life and stop worrying if there is a god. it doesn't say that not believing in god will make your life perfect. almost everyone i've met that believes in god both loves and is afraid of god at the same time. i know i was both and my religion taught me to be both. the government is funding a school system that teaches both to love god and fear god using canadian tax dollars. it is unnecessary suffering. yes, the canadian government funded the catholic school system i grew up in which worked on behalf of the catholic church to make me believe if i didn't worship god, i'd burn in hell for all eternity. and i don't care that they might not teach those things anymore. it is still written in the bibles that fill those schools, along with the rest of the irrational hatred and intolerance.

where in that ad does it say religion should be banned?

If your view of religion is one of only torment and punishment I don't blame you for your resentment of religion. I find people who view the world in absolutes to be very narrow minded. I find the people who say "because of evolution and the big bang, there is no God," just as crazy as those who say "there is no such thing as evolution and the big bang, because there is only God."

The religion that I choose to participate is one of tolerance, self-improvement and above all else, love. I don't live my life in fear of judgement for what I am, nor do I think that God is simply a man sitting on a cloud being angry all the time; ready to kill and burn at any moment. Sadly, this is the view carried by many people who see the world in black and white: orthodox people and many atheists.

You may have your own story of your fallout with religion, but mine happened very differently: I was an atheist in an atheist household for much of my life, until I found God on my own. I know I am a much better person because of it.

 

[nfitz]

Poll isn't quite clear. Does one support the campaign itself - or simply the right for groups to have such campaigns?

For example, if the NDP, Tories, and Liberals each were to have an advertising campaign on buses, I couldn't support ALL of them - but I'd certainly support the right of them to do so.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

maybe the atheists are approaching this all wrong. maybe they should just advertise bible passages. not even the fundies can complain about them.

here's some quick ones..

"1 Timothy 2:11-15

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing."

"Matthew 13:41-42

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."


"Deuteronomy 23:1

He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. "



"Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death."



"1 Peter 2:18
Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward."


"2 Chronicles 15:13
Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."



"Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."


"Matthew 5:29-30
If thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."


"Matthew 10:34
Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."

 

[kEiThZ]

I just think it's overly provocative....more so in a multi-ethnic, multi-religious city like Toronto. For that matter, I don't believe in any organized religions advertising either. Faith (or lack thereof) is a private matter and should remain that way.

What I find interesting too is that quite often atheists usually target Christianity and often the Catholic church specifically. I'd love to see them at least take an even handed approach. Let's see them criticize Muhammad. That's when I'll believe that the movement is not just a targeted attack on Christianity. That being said to each his own. I don't care to impose my faith on anyone, nor would I want someone imposing their beliefs on me.

 

[urbanfan89]

Why is it okay to have ads on the bus that say that sex before marriage is evil, but people complain on a sign that tells others to ignore religion?

Either allow both or ban any political or religious ads.

 

[kEiThZ]

Why is it okay to have ads on the bus that say that sex before marriage is evil, but people complain on a sign that tells others to ignore religion?

Either allow both or ban any political or religious ads.

Personally, I believe that on city owned property like buses, bus shelters, garbage cans, park benches, etc. no political or religious advertising should be allowed.

 

[urbanboom]

Ah, Prometheus! I see someone's been reading his family Bible, I see!

Could you put a disclaimer under each of your ads? Something that looks like this:

"Readers should take note of the following: First, these passages are sentence taken out of a very large and complex book, and their full context may be hidden just by looking at these one passages on their own. Secondly, none of the following passages came from the mouth of God, but rather from followers of prophets, each with their own political and social agenda that they were trying to push when it was put together by scholars nearly 100 years after Jesus' death. Each of them where MEN and not divine enteties, pushing forward what culture, laws and society that they new nearly 2000 years ago. Thirdly, this text was written nearly 2000 years ago and was originally written in ancient hebrew, before being translated into ancient greek, then into Latin, then the old anglo-saxon language being spoken in Brittain at the time, before evolving into old English to Modern English. While this was going on, each and every single King and Emperor, each pushing their own political agendas all may have all touched the verses to better suit their little conquest, or differing views of the world. To say that each statement has been altered is a gross understatement. And lastly this text is over 2000 years old, although for the most part, it still contains the true word of God in the form of Christ's parables and love that he showed to his fellow man during a time of deep fear, persecution and hate of thy neighbour, many different men added upon it the old values of hate, fear and judgement that would be ridiculed in our western value system (which is by the way, modeled after Christ's teachings). It is very unfortunate that this happened, seeing as Christ fought so hard destroy this old savage way of thinking."

Sounds Good?

 

[Brandon716]

Its a good ad simply from the standpoint that its making this conversation fairly intense.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I just think it's overly provocative....more so in a multi-ethnic, multi-religious city like Toronto. For that matter, I don't believe in any organized religions advertising either. Faith (or lack thereof) is a private matter and should remain that way.

What I find interesting too is that quite often atheists usually target Christianity and often the Catholic church specifically. I'd love to see them at least take an even handed approach. Let's see them criticize Muhammad. That's when I'll believe that the movement is not just a targeted attack on Christianity. That being said to each his own. I don't care to impose my faith on anyone, nor would I want someone imposing their beliefs on me.

i criticize what i know best. the reason why it seems in the western world that most atheists criticize christianity is because christianity is the most prominent religion in the west. the freedom to criticize has been won by secularist initiatives over a long period of time. the same could happen in the middle east & islamic countries if secularists from those nations have their influence. i think this freedom will first start with woman's rights movements and progress from there. of course, the internet could also have an effect: http://ca.youtube.com/user/AhmadsQuran3

i also think the most people critical of a religion, used to belong to it.

and atheists do criticize islam, especially in europe. alot of times with deadly results.




"nothing has made more atheists than the catholic church"

- can't remember who made this quote.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Ah, Prometheus! I see someone's been reading his family Bible, I see!

Could you put a disclaimer under each of your ads? Something that looks like this:

"Readers should take note of the following: First, these passages are sentence taken out of a very large and complex book, and their full context may be hidden just by looking at these one passages on their own. Secondly, none of the following passages came from the mouth of God, but rather from followers of prophets, each with their own political and social agenda that they were trying to push when it was put together by scholars nearly 100 years after Jesus' death. Each of them where MEN and not divine enteties, pushing forward what culture, laws and society that they new nearly 2000 years ago. Thirdly, this text was written nearly 2000 years ago and was originally written in ancient hebrew, before being translated into ancient greek, then into Latin, then the old anglo-saxon language being spoken in Brittain at the time, before evolving into old English to Modern English. While this was going on, each and every single King and Emperor, each pushing their own political agendas all may have all touched the verses to better suit their little conquest, or differing views of the world. To say that each statement has been altered is a gross understatement. And lastly this text is over 2000 years old, although for the most part, it still contains the true word of God in the form of Christ's parables and love that he showed to his fellow man during a time of deep fear, persecution and hate of thy neighbour, many different men added upon it the old values of hate, fear and judgement that would be ridiculed in our western value system (which is by the way, modeled after Christ's teachings). It is very unfortunate that this happened, seeing as Christ fought so hard destroy this old savage way of thinking."

Sounds Good?

not all of it. for example, when the bible instructs you to kill disobedient children, how can you take that out of context? what other meaning could it possibly have?

you can't just choose what you like in the bible and disregard the rest and say god is good based on what passages you choose. i'm sure most murderers are good for most of their lives but judgment is cast upon them not by how good they were for the majority of their lives, but for the horrible acts they have committed. you think a judge would care if a mob hitman coached a baseball team or donated money to orphans during sentencing time? you think the hitman would be deemed good because he was good 98% of the time while killing and being evil only 2% of the time?


if you wanna be a deist that's all fine and dandy but don't tell me that the god of the bible, new testament and old is a good god because of the good passages because he is most certainly not. the god of the new testament is even far worse because of the eternal hellfire punishment for trivial things.

 

[kEiThZ]

i criticize what i know best. the reason why it seems in the western world that most atheists criticize christianity is because christianity is the most prominent religion in the west. the freedom to criticize has been won by secularist initiatives over a long period of time.

And it is precisely that excuse which gets all Christians in the arab world labelled as non-believers and open to routine persecution. I would argue that the church makes for an easy target because most catholics don't retaliate and the church does not issues edicts calling for the heads of atheists.

the same could happen in the middle east & islamic countries if secularists from those nations have their influence. i think this freedom will first start with woman's rights movements and progress from there. of course, the internet could also have an effect: http://ca.youtube.com/user/AhmadsQuran3

i also think the most people critical of a religion, used to belong to it.

and atheists do criticize islam, especially in europe. alot of times with deadly results.

To say that there is some opposition against Islam while true hardly addresses my position that the movement is unbalanced in who it targets. That the movement chooses to routinely ignore the fastest growing and most oppressive of religions while choosing to attack the very faith that enabled the foundations of atheism (hardly possible in the islamic world) says a lot about the ethics of this movement. It's the same way LGBT activists lash out at the church but would not dare start challenging their local mosque. I also see close to no attention being paid to any of the eastern religions. I say it's a double standard.

 

[kEiThZ]

Back on topic. I stand by my assertion that provocative ads should not be placed on government owned property. That property is owned by all the taxpaying citizens of the given jurisdiction and should not be flogging ads that seek out to offend them specifically. If any group seeks to do that, let them take out giant billboards. That's probably far more effective in getting your message out anyway.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

And it is precisely that excuse which gets all Christians in the arab world labelled as non-believers and open to routine persecution. I would argue that the church makes for an easy target because most catholics don't retaliate and the church does not issues edicts calling for the heads of atheists.

blame the victim? shouldn't you direct your anger to those who persecute?


the catholic church doesn't call for heads because secularists have taken away their freedom to do so. at one time, the christian world (the west) was just as bad as the islamic world. you can thank atheists/agnostics/secularists for the freedom you have in the west.

To say that there is some opposition against Islam while true hardly addresses my position that the movement is unbalanced in who it targets. That the movement chooses to routinely ignore the fastest growing and most oppressive of religions while choosing to attack the very faith that enabled the foundations of atheism (hardly possible in the islamic world) says a lot about the ethics of this movement. It's the same way LGBT activists lash out at the church but would not dare start challenging their local mosque. I also see close to no attention being paid to any of the eastern religions. I say it's a double standard.

it's because most of the persecution of LGBT's in canada comes from christian sources. do you have proof that the "movement" is ignoring islam? did i ignore islam when that guy killed his daughter because she didn't want to cover her head? no. i made a thread criticizing it.


one of the reasons oppressive religions gain a foothold is because our christian politicians allow them a free pass in effort to be fair because they want a free pass for their superstition. remember how john tory wanted to fund all faith schools? to be fair? i'm pretty sure he's not an atheist. i would have made catholic schools go secular or lose funding.

politically correct liberal christians tolerate oppressive religions and extend to them the same privileges they enjoy, not atheists.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Back on topic. I stand by my assertion that provocative ads should not be placed on government owned property. That property is owned by all the taxpaying citizens of the given jurisdiction and should not be flogging ads that seek out to offend them specifically. If any group seeks to do that, let them take out giant billboards. That's probably far more effective in getting your message out anyway.

anything can be labeled proactive. a lipstick ad can be labeled proactive. an ad for the pride parade can be labeled proactive. there is endless possibility of what can offend someone's religious views or beliefs.


back to your idea that atheists give islam a good time, the bus advert is not religion specific. it applies to allah too, even zeus.

 

[000]

I agree with nfitz in principal