Amazon Second HQ

[syn]

Portlands are currently completely undeveloped and isolated from the core, so I don't agree.

They are now - but they also offer something of a clean slate (not that I'd want them to drastically alter plans to accommodate Amazon).

Aside from the Portlands, Toronto seems to offer plenty of options.

 

[Avenue]

Port Lands idea will quickly be shut down once Amazon finds out its 50,000 employees will be expected to get there by the 514 Cherry streetcar which moves at 3km/h in rush hour.

 

[Epi]

How about Downsville Park? There's a bunch of random things there right now which could be repurposed/rezoned and lots of space. And it's right on the subway AND a 25 minute drive to Pearson.

 

[ADRM]

How about Downsville Park? There's a bunch of random things there right now which could be repurposed/rezoned and lots of space. And it's right on the subway AND a 25 minute drive to Pearson.

Amazon is not looking to locate in a vaguely suburban location with nothing of consequence around it.

 

[christof53]

Link to the RFP:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Star: Toronto has big challenges landing new Amazon HQ, author says

 

[Avenue]

Star: Toronto has big challenges landing new Amazon HQ, author says

Q: What advice would you give Toronto bid boosters as they decide how to try to land this fish?

A: Amazon uses data to make all of its decisions. And it follows the Amazon Leadership Principles to figure out all tough problems. Position yourself along those leadership principles using very specific comparative data, and you will be speaking “Amazon talk.”

Well, John Tory is screwed.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

These U.S. cities have the best chance of being Amazon’s second headquarters

For tech firms, real estate leases and rentals make up just 4 percent of a business’s operating expenses, while payroll alone makes up about 50 percent according to the Census Bureau’s Business Expenses Survey.

With Toronto's tech salaries being roughly 70% to 80% of US salaries, Amazon should see enormous cost savings by locating in Toronto.

 

[DSC]

See: http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/technology/amazon-cities/index.html We made THEIR list.

 

[Admiral Beez]

California has a top tax rate of 55%, and they don't seem to have much trouble attracting a "very highly paid tech and managerial workforce". Neither does New York with a 51% top marginal rate.

Can't speak for NY, but Cali's got the weather on its side. Honestly, why any American lives above the snowline baffles me.

 

[jje1000]

Can't speak for NY, but Cali's got the weather on its side. Honestly, why any American lives above the snowline baffles me.

Some people like changing seasons and the hot/cold. That being said, I think a majority of people prefer a mild climate, with temperatures that stay in the low +/- digits in winter and the high-twenties-low-thirties in summer.

Star: Toronto has big challenges landing new Amazon HQ, author says

Q: What advice would you give Toronto bid boosters as they decide how to try to land this fish?

A: Amazon uses data to make all of its decisions. And it follows the Amazon Leadership Principles to figure out all tough problems. Position yourself along those leadership principles using very specific comparative data, and you will be speaking “Amazon talk.”

Well, John Tory is screwed.

Amusingly enough for the principles:

https://www.amazon.com/p/feature/p34qgjcv93n37yd

Toronto doesn't seem to have been following those in its city-building and governance.

Q: What are Toronto’s strengths and weakness as a bidder?

A: Toronto is undoubtedly a cultural world-class city but has a very high cost of living and is more congested than Seattle. I doubt Amazon will put itself in a distant suburb of a major city. I also suspect there will be a stigma of putting its headquarters in another country — Amazon will have to convince a lot of existing executives to relocate, and another country with higher personal tax rates is a bigger question mark than another American city. I am not optimistic that the Ontario and Toronto governments will be excited about spending the kind of investment/tax incentives that Amazon is seeking. Yes, HQ2 is an amazing long-term opportunity, but the payment is also long-term.

I wonder, coming off the recent elimination of the deficit (details are still disputed)- if the Liberals are really keen on loosening the purse-strings in its incentives- especially with the 2018 elections drawing near. Brown and the Conservatives could potentially use this as a weapon against the Liberals- especially since the pay-off won't be felt for a longer time. The cost of living (rent and housing, mainly) is a huge issue- but one that may be cleverly alleviated in part via a site proposal (potentially integrating housing into the Unilever development to house a portion of the workforce?).

But a more interesting point that may be a bonus for Toronto- with the city's huge tech workpool:

Q: What cities do you think will be the prime contenders, based on Amazon has said and what you are hearing?

A: I have heard the cities of Austin (Texas), Charlotte (N.C.) and Pittsburgh mentioned but anticipate Amazon will accept less tax incentive/investment for a broader commitment to build out much more access to IT-trained graduates. Recruiting is a huge problem for Amazon, with over 9,000 job openings with office jobs just at Amazon’s Seattle headquarters. Most of these are engineering roles — there aren’t enough recently trained candidates in North America to support Amazon’s current growth.

Pittsburgh or Austin seem like fairly safe and promising choices (I could see another PNC Plaza-esque tower going up to house Amazon). Amazon will be the larger fish in the ponds there- and will have ear of politicians. A lot of work to be done convincing them that north of the border is worth it.

Speaking of lists- here's another one, but one that also lists out potential development sites:

https://www.curbed.com/2017/9/8/16274084/amazon-headquarters-city-planning

An interesting, more cynical viewpoint from above:

Occam’s Razor says that the physically capable city/state which offers the best short-term financial incentive concomitant with the best long-term corporate tax structure shall "win" this latest Bezos accounting 3-Card Monty game. "Follow the money" never fails in the world of business and politics.

If there is, in fact, an Olympics-style RFP and dog-and-pony roadshow process which carries images of that bug-eyed freak Bezos intently nodding with earnest focus as various mayors, governors and the usual hanger-ons from high-tax states wax poetically about their region’s fine culture, arts, diversity and intellectual capability then I’d love to witness it just for the embarrassing fakeness of it all.

Amazon is inherently a tax-arbitrage hedge fund at it’s core. Bezos used the archaic interstate commerce laws to pull the rug under the large retailers in the country – who are all run by dumber than rocks Corporate Ladder dinosaurs – with the advent of the internet by simply offering the products that the retailers offered on their shelves for the discount equivalent to the sales tax. We all used Amazon a few years ago because it saved us the sales tax. We all use today because we’re too lazy to drive to Target or Best Buy to deal with the parking lots and check-out lines.

Now that the sales tax loophole has closed and the retailers are all losing market share and equity, Bezos has two things to focus on: 1) Purchase the brick-and-mortor retailers that he needed in the past to do the marketing, and 2) To reduce the corporate tax obligation that exists by being wholly HQ’ed in Seattle.

The obvious answer will be something like Austin or Delaware. Austin gives him the nice tax treatment, a faux Liberal hipster vibe like Seattle and presence in a Red state. Delaware gives him nice tax treatment, corporate shenanigans benefits, access to the Eastern power centers, and is close to his zombie journalists at the WaPo.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The cost of living (rent and housing, mainly) is a huge issue- but one that may be cleverly alleviated in part via a site proposal (potentially integrating housing into the Unilever development to house a portion of the workforce?)

That's probably unnecessary - Unilever is surrounded by mainly residential neighbourhoods to be - what remains to be built out for West Donlands, East Bayfront, totally new builds of Lower Don Lands (between Parliament and the Don) and Villers Island. Plus intensification at Carlaw, King East, Regent Park, Lower Yonge, etc.

AoD

 

[Avenue]

"Toronto is undoubtedly a cultural world-class city but has a very high cost of living and is more congested than Seattle. I doubt Amazon will put itself in a distant suburb of a major city. "

Why is cost of living a big issue? I thought these Amazon jobs were supposed to be high-paying. Some of these analysis pieces that get published lack consistency.

 

[ADRM]

Why is cost of living a big issue? I thought these Amazon jobs were supposed to be high-paying. Some of these analysis pieces that get published lack consistency.

It's a matter of degree; the majority of these jobs, as it has been reported, will pay more than $100K, but if you're a family of four and one half of the parental unit isn't a high earner, is $100K for the main breadwinner to live on in downtown Toronto? It's not cry-me-a-river stuff, obviously, but there are indeed different shades of what both "high paying" and "affordable" mean to different people in different situations.

Toronto is objectively a lot more expensive than a whole bunch of the American cities that'll throw their hats in the ring for this.

 

[Palma]

Come on, our family income is 110,000 and we live in Toronto - ok not downtown - north of eglinton. My husband 75-80000 and me 25,000-30,000 about central core.