News   Nov 04, 2024
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Allowing Prayer sessions during school time

No you're not, because it is completely ridiculous. If they want to have prayer in school they have the option to go to the private sector.
 
It's an f****ed up world when a teenager in Canada wants to pray during school hours rather than skip class and smoke a joint.
 
What kind of precedence is this setting, removing children from their school/learning time to they can learn about religion?
I think the idea was that they were already leaving the school and not coming back ... so doing this increases the school/learning time.

On one hand I can see good reasons to do this - on the other hand, it does create some disturbing precedents.

And for those that want to defend this, they are already separating the boys from the girls. How backwards is this?
Well that's wrong ... if there are religious "clubs" in public schools they would have to allow anyone in, regardless of sex, religion, or sexual preference.
 
I think the idea was that they were already leaving the school and not coming back ... so doing this increases the school/learning time.

On one hand I can see good reasons to do this - on the other hand, it does create some disturbing precedents.

Well that's wrong ... if there are religious "clubs" in public schools they would have to allow anyone in, regardless of sex, religion, or sexual preference.


The education act makes it mandatory for students to attend school.

Religious 'clubs' are very different than what's going on, did you even read the article? They are already separating the girls from the boys, and having women that are 'menstruating' sit on the 'sidelines'. They are also taking time away from other students that would use the cafe'gym.

But you know what, they'll learn about the 'sins' of homosexuality, nothing wrong with that. The way I see it, schools are sanctioning the teachings at these 'prayer' meetings if it's held on school property, during school time.
 
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The education act makes it mandatory for students to attend school.
... um ... no ... it doesn't.

Religious 'clubs' are very different than what's going on, did you even read the article?
I didn't say it was what was going on. Did you read my post?

They are already separating the girls from the boys, and having women that are 'menstruating' sit on the 'sidelines'.
Which is absolutely disgraceful. How anyone in a public school can let such a thing happen and still have a job is beyond me. However, I have no doubt that the problem will be quickly fixed. That doesn't solve the issue though.

They are also taking time away from other students that would use the cafe'gym.
So does drama.

But you know what, they'll learn about the 'sins' of homosexuality and perhaps allow that insane Imam to the children. The way I see it, schools are sanctioning the teachings at these 'prayer' meetings if it's held on school property, during school time.
They would indeed be. I'd think as a condition, any religious materials and teachings would have to be pre-cleared with the School Baord and Ministry of Education. One would think that any religious organization with such vile bigotry would be banned from coming within so many metres of public schools!
 
What interests me about this story is how everything seemed to be going along well for three years, apparently with no complaints, and then, at the end (?) of the school year, convicted anti-Islamic hatemonger Mark Harding sends an email to Arnie Lemaire (AKA Blazing Cat Fur). Now suddenly it’s a problem.

I think I’ll wait a little longer before panicking; there’s more at play here than first meets the eye.
 
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Religion should be kept the hell out of the public school system. If immigrants have a problem with Canada's secular nature, then they're more than free to go back to wherever they came from.

I also have a problem with public funding for Catholic schools, but that's another issue altogether.
 
I also have a problem with public funding for Catholic schools, but that's another issue altogether.
Is it? We tell Muslims to keep their religion out of the public schools; but we pay for the free education of Christians? Should we keep religion out of the Catholic school board as well?

It's pretty much the same issue. We can't have it both ways.
 
Is it? We tell Muslims to keep their religion out of the public schools; but we pay for the free education of Christians? Should we keep religion out of the Catholic school board as well?

It's pretty much the same issue. We can't have it both ways.

Which is why I said I have a problem with it, but it's a different issue altogether because of why this happened historically.

The public school system (TDSB) should not, under any circumstances, be allowing religious activities inside the school. Closing a cafeteria for prayer and turning it into a mosque where women can't pray with men and if they're menstruating must sit somewhere else is so very wrong in today's society. I don't think our laws and our secularity should be changed to reflect immigration. It's the same stance I take with Sikhs carrying their knife around. If they miss the old country's tradition, they're welcome to go back. I originally immigrated from Serbia, and for good reason, so I left all that baggage behind.
 
Religion in any form needs to be separate of the Public School system.

There's already places where interested parties can practice/learn about their religions. Churches, Mosques, Synagogues, Temples, Sacrificial Alters, etc....


School = Maths, Science, Language, Arts.

Places of Worship = Whatever nonsensical BS you chose to believe in.
 
sigh...us Muslims just cannot get any good press these days...not sure if there are other muslims on the boards here, so I'll do my best to argue back..

So it seems there are two issues at play here:

1. Separation of church and state, or specifically in this situation, use of public facilities for private religious accomodation.
2. Islamic prayer rules regarding men and women praying together

I'll address 2. first. On the assumption that 1. is a non-issue or has been resolved to the publics satisfaction, I dont think that #2 is the business of non-muslims. You have the right to voice an opinion on the matter, as we have freedoms in this country, but to try and have those who dont subscribe to a religions following dictate how to organize prayers is absurd. The quran and teachings of the prophet set out how things are to be arranged, and the arrangement at the school is in keeping with these authorities. I'm not going to go into detail about why women have to pray behind men, (as I'm sure folks arent going to accept any explanation), but regarding menstruating females, in Islam women are not supposed to pray when menstruating (they get an exemption of sorts) so that is why those girls would not be involved in the praying aspect.

The obvious bigger issue here is #1.

Now im probably biased, so I dont really see the big problem. This school has a large muslim contingent that was skipping classes to go to nearby mosque. For safety and education (ie, to minimize class time missed) purposes, Valley Park runs the prayer sessions in the cafeteria to make it easier on the students. As it happens, Jewish and Chrsitian prayers are focused on weekends (If I understand it correctly), so there is not much occasion for them to get similar treatment. But if they would like to organize a school week prayer session they should also have the ability to do so.

I dont really think the Muslims here are getting special treatment. I assume that if the Hindu group makes similar requests they would be accomodated similarly. This isnt a zero sum game where one group wins and one group loses.

As it relates to imams and sermons, I think that because it is a public school, the Imam should be screened by the Ministry. Just because there are one or two extreme preachers (the Jamaican that came here during pride week comes to mind), does not mean all, or even most Imams and preachers are like that.

If you really want to separate church and state, start funding Muslim (and other religious) schools under the same rules and guidelines as Catholic schools. Most muslims cant afford to send their children to private muslim schools bc the fees are so much higher due to lack of similar tax funding. Or, if that is unacceptable, remove the double standard allowing Catholic school funding. I personally dont have a preference either way, as long as all religious groups get the same treatment.
 
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Is it? We tell Muslims to keep their religion out of the public schools; but we pay for the free education of Christians? Should we keep religion out of the Catholic school board as well?

It's pretty much the same issue. We can't have it both ways.

Who is we...as far as i know, its up to the property owner and his property taxes to decide which school board to support
 
Who is we...as far as i know, its up to the property owner and his property taxes to decide which school board to support

This is true, but the only religious group that has this option available are Catholics...why should they get preferential treatment? Or if you are going to give them preferential treatment here, why all the fuss when a different religious group gets preferential treatment in a different situation?
 
This is true, but the only religious group that has this option available are Catholics...

Thats because...It has the largest number of followers of a religion in Canada with 46% of Canadians (13,070,000 as of 2008) baptized as Catholics
..I believe they have some pull..dont you think.
 

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