407 Rail Freight Bypass/The Missing Link

[Metroscapes]

With the privatization of booze, the days for LCBO calling North Toronto Station are limited. The odd sale of a 5-figure bottle of liquor cannot keep it financially viable. Would usher in an opportunity to transition it back to a station...

Okay I'm just trolling now.

 

[crs1026]

With the privatization of booze, the days for LCBO calling North Toronto Station are limited. The odd sale of a 5-figure bottle of liquor cannot keep it financially viable. Would usher in an opportunity to transition it back to a station...

Okay I'm just trolling now.

LOL You sure are.

But a serious question - who owns the station these days? Is LCBO merely a tenant, or did they acquire the property?

As a standalone, I am sure that the North Toronto location would be profitable, so somebody else might want the franchise. It's the smaller LCBO outlets that are most at risk. If Ford ever shut down the LCBO completely, it doesn't necessarily mean the loss of a retail property of some sort occupying the station..

For that matter, I wonder how much it would cost to construct accessible compliant platforms there. Possibly not a cheap reno, considering what might have been buried underneath, etc

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

LOL You sure are.

But a serious question - who owns the station these days? Is LCBO merely a tenant, or did they acquire the property?

As a standalone, I am sure that the North Toronto location would be profitable, so somebody else might want the franchise. It's the smaller LCBO outlets that are most at risk. If Ford ever shut down the LCBO completely, it doesn't necessarily mean the loss of a retail property of some sort occupying the station..

For that matter, I wonder how much it would cost to construct accessible compliant platforms there. Possibly not a cheap reno, considering what might have been buried underneath, etc

- Paul

With the privatization of booze, the days for LCBO calling North Toronto Station are limited. The odd sale of a 5-figure bottle of liquor cannot keep it financially viable. Would usher in an opportunity to transition it back to a station...

Okay I'm just trolling now.

Summerhill is the #2 selling store in the province with sales exceeding 50M per year. (the last year I have the numbers for is almost a decade out of date (2016), and that was 47M, it would not surprise me if they're up over 60 at this point.

As for the owner, that's Woodcliffe and the LCBO is their tenant.

Edit: The above was correct, but @rbt reminded me of the sales transaction back in 2016. I have now confirmed that Crestpoint is the current owner, with some help from @rbt.

 

[max]

Summerhill is the #2 selling store in the province with sales exceeding 50M per year. (the last year I have the numbers for is almost a decade out of date (2016), and that was 47M, it would not surprise me if there up over 60 at this point.

As for the owner, that's Woodcliffe and the LCBO is their tenant.

Who is Number One?!

 

[Northern Light]

Who is Number One?!

Queen's Quay, historically. I'm not sure if that's still the case since they moved. Generally they did about 10% more than Summerhill.

 

[abovegrade]

I feel like in my head, I feel like with an LCBO ‘potentially’ closing down might get eyes from advocates for rail service on the midtown line. Big emphasis on what could happen, but again… who knows. I live near this corridor, it’s my number one dream for Toronto right now.

 

[Krypto98]

If two railways companies don't want to run beside each other due to derailment risk:

• Is our regulatory regime and safety requirements not good enough, or are railway companies doing a lousy job on mainline safety?
• Mitigation measures could be implemented to ease these concerns
• If they want to eliminate this risk, go build a new rail corridor outside of the most populous metropolitan area of Canada

That might have to do with network redundancy (which is slightly hypocritical since they tore up so many lines) a few months ago last fall CP had a derailment on the CP Parry Sound Sub right parallel to the CN Bala at Dock siding. Both tracks were shut down for a day meaning the only way CN trains could go west would to detour through the US.

 

[rbt]

LOL You sure are.

But a serious question - who owns the station these days? Is LCBO merely a tenant, or did they acquire the property?

As for the owner, that's Woodcliffe and the LCBO is their tenant.

They sold it in 2016 (according to their website) at the same time they sold the "Shops of Summerhill" block to the south which is currently being developed.

I'm unsure who the current owner is but I don't believe it is the LCBO. LCBO doesn't mention a purchase in their 2016-17 annual report but there is mention of the warehouse sale to Menkes.

 

[Northern Light]

They sold it in 2016 at the same time they sold the "Shops of Summerhill" block to the south which is currently being developed.

Correct, my bad.

I'd forgotten that, and if you go to Woodcliffe's portfolio page, its still there, simply listed as 'legacy, complete' but not as sold. But now that you've reminded me, indeed that is the case.

I'm unsure who the current owner is but I don't believe it is the LCBO. LCBO doesn't mention a purchase in their 2016-17 annual report but there is mention of the warehouse sale to Menkes.

I'm not sure if its accurate, but Wikipedia says the LCBO is the owner

North Toronto station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rbt]

Correct, my bad.

I'd forgotten that, and if you go to Woodcliffe's portfolio page, its still there, simply listed as 'legacy, complete' but not as sold. But now that you've reminded me, indeed that is the case.



I'm not sure if its accurate, but Wikipedia says the LCBO is the owner

North Toronto station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wikipedia is regularly incorrect.

I'm pretty sure Crestpoint bought it, and JLL brokered the transaction.

 

[Northern Light]

Wikipedia is regularly incorrect.

I'm pretty sure Crestpoint bought it, and JLL brokered the transaction.

Excellent memory! Crestpoint's website confirms this:

Our Properties – Crestpoint Real Estate Investments Ltd.

crestpoint.cclgroup.com

 

[crs1026]

The original thought behind my question was whether a new station at North Toronto would need a willing transit oriented development partner from the get-go, as opposed to LCBO simply transferring title to ML and ML potentially reaping income from finding a partner and developing the site. If the site is privately owned, I wonder what plans they might have. It's a heritage site, sure, but doesn't stop putting something on the site somehow. And if LCBO is only a tenant, ML faces a more expensive entry price

- Paul

 

[urbancog]

From Google Streetview, it looks like the property is both sides of the CPKC line. Something like this:

 

[rbt]

From Google Streetview, it looks like the property is both sides of the CPKC line. Something like this:
View attachment 574899

That's pretty close: Ontario Land Registry blocks below. It's kinda an odd area. The condominiums own the bulk of the land but there are half a dozen permanent easements for the Scrinever Square roadway, parking for the LCBO, Subway tunnel (between LCBO and 20 Scrinever Square), etc.

Fire Ventilation and Second Exit Project for Summerhill station:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2021/gl/bgrd/backgroundfile-170359.pdf

 

[Bojaxs]

It really is a shame that we never successfully negotiated with CN to construct the 407 freight bypass. If the hypothetical route had gone north of the 401, just above the Trafalgar Rd & Steeles Rd intersection, it could have potentially provided a much better place for a new Intermodal yard in Milton vs the current location CN wants to construct off of Tremaine. Probably wouldn't have had to construct an entirely new on/off ramp setup on the 401 for Tremaine. Trucks could have just used the existing Trafalgar on/off ramps.

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