2023 Toronto Mayoral by-election

[Northern Light]

And if we go more in the direction of cities like Vancouver and San Francisco, do you think we'll improve?

Your just pulling random stuff out the sky!

What policy is it that Chow or Matlow have advocated that you feel would be bad, and how does that relate to either SF or Vancouver?

The Mayors of Edmonton and Calgary were left-centre, so is the mayor of Montreal, and Mayors in London, UK and Paris, France......

You have this odd obsession with hating 'left-ness' without any material explanation of what policy you actually dislike.

Is it the high minimum wage in SF? Or the limits on chain-retail? Is it Vancouver's desire for more bike lanes and carsharing?

 

[SJD_Toronto]

Now that's funny.(bold)



There is nothing substantive about running against the 'gravy train'; Rob didn't improve efficiency at City Hall by one iota, nor did he have a plan to do so.

Smart Track was patently absurd, back-of-the-napkin nonsense from everyone's favourite self-promoting would-be transportation expert It was utter nonsense, and anyone who paid attention saw through it. Tory was not elected on it. He was elected on not being a Ford.



What a bizarre assertion for which you have provided no evidence. What 'left leaning stuff' would be so bad? What are you talking about? I'm perfectly fine w/you disagreeing with something Chow stands for or is committed to, but please spell it out, rather than waving your hand dramatically about and yelling but she's no good without saying why.



John Tory did not govern as a centrist, he penny-pinched all the way, cutting City services to the bone, starving them of resources and left the City worse than when he was elected. He didn't even govern as 'progressive, conservative', but rather as an arch one.

Its only that his rhetoric was moderate, his substance was not.



Josh might be an issue in respect of his ability to play well w/others; but he's by far the best policy wonk of the leading candidates.



The last mayor to meet criteria was Miller; Tory has kept a very tight circle and almost entirely excluded the left from power. He made nice w/Cressy for a bit; but that's about it.

My mistake with the grammar error. Thanks for pointing it out.

A) I'm not saying Ford improved anything at city hall. I wanted George Smitherman elected in 2010.
B) Tory ran on SmartTrack. It was his signature campaign promise, regardless if it worked out or not. I know people who liked his SmartTrack plan and yes, he was not like Rob Ford. That said, SmartTrack played a factor in his 2014 win. What's Olivia Chow's signature campaign piece? I'm waiting for it.
C) I have no evidence, however, based on what Chow has said in the past, what she has stood for, her hard left leanings and what is she likely to do (lots of taxes, as an example), I don't believe she will be the best mayor we could have. I said I could be wrong if she turns out to be a wonderful mayor. I will happily eat crow if I'm wrong. We will see what type of leader she is if she is elected.
D) John Tory approached overseeing council like a Red Tory. Rob Ford was hard-right. I saw Tory running the city as centre-right. And it looked like most residents were fine with that. As a Red Tory/Blue Liberal, I was happy with that.
E) I fully expect Josh Matlow to become Olivia Chow's key policy person and possibly her deputy mayor.
F) Most mayors will have a close group of people he or she will work with. That's nothing new and very common. I expect Olivia Chow to have a tight circle. I can see her working closely with members like Gord Perks, Alejandra Bravo, Matlow, etc.

 

[Northern Light]

C) I have no evidence

This is crucial; informed opinions should be derived from evidence.

, however, based on what Chow has said in the past, what she has stood for, her hard left leanings and what is she likely to do (lots of taxes, as an example)

What is 'lots of taxes'; and seeing as the City requires more $$ for transit, parks, public realm, pot holes, street cleaning, garbage pick-up, shelters/housing and libraries to name but a few; how would you proposed to pay
for these without some additional taxes?

D) John Tory approached overseeing council like a Red Tory. Rob Ford was hard-right. I saw Tory running the city as centre-right. And it looked like most residents were fine with that. As a Red Tory/Blue Liberal, I was happy with that.

I don't agree at all. David Crombie was a red tory as mayor; Bill Davis was a red tory as premier, John Tory was neither. He accomplished slightly less than nothing during his tenure in office.

E) I fully expect Josh Matlow to become Olivia Chow's key policy person and possibly her deputy mayor.

An interesting supposition; I'd be curious to know if you any reason to believe that to be the case?

F) Most mayors will have a close group of people he or she will work with. That's nothing new and very common. I expect Olivia Chow to have a tight circle. I can see her working closely with members like Gord Perks, Alejandra Bravo, Matlow, etc.

Miller had players across the political spectrum who worked closely with him; the same was not true of Tory for the most part.

Yes, I would expect Chow to work with NDP councillors, whether or not she will include a mix from across the political spectrum I truly don't know; though she will need some non-NDP votes to get things passed.

 

[SashaLemon]

D) John Tory approached overseeing council like a Red Tory. Rob Ford was hard-right. I saw Tory running the city as centre-right. And it looked like most residents were fine with that. As a Red Tory/Blue Liberal, I was happy with that.

It's all neo-liberal. It's just the Overton window giving you the illusion that there is any difference at all.

 

[SJD_Toronto]

This is crucial; informed opinions should be derived from evidence.

Given that she has sat in opposition positions during her political career, supported some outlandish things in the past and what she believes in, I don't have confidence in her ability to lead the city forward in the most manageable way.

What is 'lots of taxes'; and seeing as the City requires more $$ for transit, parks, public realm, pot holes, street cleaning, garbage pick-up, shelters/housing and libraries to name but a few; how would you proposed to pay
for these without some additional taxes?

"I am ready to tax!" That alone doesn't sit well with me, especially that the NDP are known for always looking to taxes. Ask Bob Rae how things went when the NDP oversaw the province for a term. Unless taxes are kept as low as possible or if they have to go up at all, it's very small, there is no reason to believe that she would push for more taxes across the city. And especially seeing how expensive life is right now, I don't support the possibility of taxes going up and up and up. The fact is the provincial and federal governments need to cut new deals with the city.

I don't agree at all. David Crombie was a red tory as mayor; Bill Davis was a red tory as premier, John Tory was neither. He accomplished slightly less than nothing during his tenure in office.

Agree to disagree with you. John Tory is a pure Red Tory in my eyes. And while I wish Tory had accomplished more, I liked his approach to city politics.

An interesting supposition; I'd be curious to know if you any reason to believe that to be the case?

I suspect he would be a close right-hand man to Chow as he will likely align with her on many policy items and even though he will not be mayor, I can't see her not bringing him into her possible political circle. Like picking a running mate, sometimes you pick the person you were competitive against as you know the partnership will help lead to results you want. Perhaps he wouldn't be a deputy mayor under Chow, but I think he would want to work closely with her, and I think she'll allow it as they have similar ideas.

Miller had players across the political spectrum who worked closely with him; the same was not true of Tory for the most part.

Yes, I would expect Chow to work with NDP councillors, whether or not she will include a mix from across the political spectrum I truly don't know; though she will need some non-NDP votes to get things passed.

I give Tory credit for trying to work with mostly everyone. He did have some that fought him on everything. I don't blame him for having a tight circle though. With our current political climate, I would be shocked if Chow managed to work well with the majority of council members. If she comes into office and we can see she is trying to rope council together so things can be done as a collective whole, I will give her nothing but props for that.

 

[Rufus8]

And if we go more in the direction of cities like Vancouver and San Francisco, do you think we'll improve?

Both those cities have similar problems. My objection is that the debates are about things the mayor has little control over - the mayor doesn't control food distribution network, can't stop unnecessary development, has nothing to say about health care sector, education or the economy (i.e rents, house prices). The mayor can't do a lot of things but it seems the voters think they can. That's what I said about Trump, the whole election has been derailed by deflection - how is it that a city that has grown exponentially over the past decade (lots of new condos with property tax payers, lots of development with fees paid) still manages to get $1billion in the hole? We are not alone in facing these problems and we have to have specific solution intiated by our municipal government.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Given Chow’s political leaning, if she gets a lot of left leaning politics passed through council, I firmly believe there will be negative results down the road.

I'm voting for Chow for the very chaos it's bound to cause and the hilarious tantrums it can only provoke from Doug.

It's not that I don't know what she's about, it's about wanting to cause some sh#t. Muahahaha, bwahahaha!

 

[Northern Light]

I'm more interested in looking at actual policy proposals and discussing their virtues/risks/costs than imagining what someone might do in some vague way.

I like this promise, from yesterday....:

With one important * I know what the cost of open hours expansion has been pegged at in the past, and its a fair bit more than 5M; I'm entirely curious as to where her campaign got that number from.

The 2023 budget has these numbers:

Her plan actually calls for more Sunday service than is proposed in the open hours strategy, but may call for less at other times (not clear)

 

[SJD_Toronto]

I'm voting for Chow for the very chaos it's bound to cause and the hilarious tantrums it can only provoke from Doug.

It's not that I don't know what she's about, it's about wanting to cause some sh#t. Muahahaha, bwahahaha!

I want someone who will try to work with the premier. Maybe I'm crazy to think that.

 

[picard102]

I want someone who will try to work with the premier. Maybe I'm crazy to think that.

Ya actively seeking the Premier to further handcuff us isn't the way to go.
But the upside is that maybe they dissolve the city entirely and queens park has to run it and actually pay for the services they downloaded.

 

[SJD_Toronto]

Ya actively seeking the Premier to further handcuff us isn't the way to go.
But the upside is that maybe they dissolve the city entirely and queens park has to run it and actually pay for the services they downloaded.

So, what happens if Doug Ford and the conservatives get re-elected again in 2026? Just keep saying Ford is handcuffing the city and wait until the Ontario Liberals get back into power? I would like a mayor who will try to have conversations with his government instead of fighting them. If Olivia Chow wins, she will have to have conversations with Ford and his company for new deals with the city. That's a fact.

 

[SashaLemon]

The city needs to be more independent not less. Charter status required at this point.

 

[Northern Light]

So, what happens if Doug Ford and the conservatives get re-elected again in 2026? Just keep saying Ford is handcuffing the city and wait until the Ontario Liberals get back into power? I would like a mayor who will try to have conversations with his government instead of fighting them. If Olivia Chow wins, she will have to have conversations with Ford and his company for new deals with the city. That's a fact.

I think you and others are far too caught up in 'theatre'.

Nominally, Trudeau and Ford are political opposites; they are certainly personality opposites; each has publicly scolded the other, Trudeau ran for re-election w/Doug as a foil; and Ford has sued the Trudeau gov't.

Yet, the two have worked virtually hand-in-glove on the Covid file; then again on $10 per day daycare; and several other items; while also agreeing on wooing electric car battery-related investments (for better or worse)

Don't be paying attention to superficial posturing.

Ford may even find Chow a useful foil; and vice versa.

Obviously, their relationship might be entirely unproductive...........but how much less productive could it be than Tory/Wynne and Tory/Ford?

There were no 'new deals' for the City under Tory as Mayor with either party in power and both premiers have stifled or over-ruled City plans (nixing tolls, nixing development charges, refusing to approve a bike path in a Toronto park without a bumped up EA) ....

 

[concrete_and_light]

"I am ready to tax!" That alone doesn't sit well with me, especially that the NDP are known for always looking to taxes. Ask Bob Rae how things went when the NDP oversaw the province for a term. Unless taxes are kept as low as possible or if they have to go up at all, it's very small, there is no reason to believe that she would push for more taxes across the city. And especially seeing how expensive life is right now, I don't support the possibility of taxes going up and up and up. The fact is the provincial and federal governments need to cut new deals with the city.

Toronto's property taxes are the lowest in the region. Why is raising them wrong in that light? What evidence is there for taxes going "up and up and up" as you say? Raising them somewhat seems highly justified and even fiscally responsible after over a decade of being artificially locked down for the electoral benefit and ideology of Ford and Tory and the austerity crew that have been running things here. Starving a city's finances and letting it fall apart because right wing politicians are too focused on the political optics for their electoral benefit or too ideological to raise taxes a small amount is irresponsible IMO. Putting one's head in the sand like Tory did about financing the city and always keeping taxes locked down for political benefit no matter what is not in any way fiscally responsible.

Yes the federal gov and provincial governments need to cut new deals as well but Toronto should at least be bringing its taxes up to a more comparable level to others in the region in order to do our part and not arbitrarily locking them down as Tory and Ford did while crying poor to the other levels of government. Maybe other levels will take us more seriously if we try to pull our own weight in a way that's comparable to other regions.

Affordability is of course an issue, but we're not going to low tax our way out of the affordability crisis. This kind of approach just leads to an austerity death spiral — as we are seeing over these years of conservative austerity governance. A moderate increase on property owners who have made significant wealth through explosion in property value due to the unfair structures of our society benefiting them seems highly reasonable. Chow's proposal for a luxury home tax also seems to take this into account and targets more tax revenue from those who have significant property wealth vs. just taxing everyone the same.

But I think taxes going up somewhat across the board is totally reasonable as well to address the needs of the city. They've been artificially kept low for over a decade now. We've had over a decade of conservatives keeping taxes locked low and then when the idea of raising them a slight amount comes up to be responsible people freak out and claim it's far left TAX TAX TAX. It's not. It's moderate to raise taxes somewhat and it's reasonable and it's fiscally responsible.

 

[afransen]

A land value tax would help (or at least not hurt) on the affordability front, while raising revenue. The losers would be land value speculators and people with underutilized lots, as it will tend to slow or turn negative the rate of price appreciation of land.