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2022/24 Russian-Ukrainian War
- Thread starter Towered
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Northern Light
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Admiral Beez
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Am I correct in seeing that Ukraine has not liberated any of the post-2014 Russian-held Donetsk Oblast? With its more numerous towns and cities, Donetsk does look like a trickier province to crack.
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Bjays92
Senior Member
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
www.bloomberg.com
Interesting remarks by Biden here, I know he has a habit off going off script and speaking off the cuff, but generally when he does so it's just saying the quiet part out loud. I've never thought Putin was bluffing with his threats, but this is the most direct answer from the US signalling they believe he is being serious.
On a somewhat related note:
kEiThZ
Superstar
The Russians aren't entirely stupid...
kEiThZ
Superstar
Correct. Luhansk is easier. And once they take Luhansk they can flank all the defences in Donetsk.
kEiThZ
Superstar
In the article itself, Sullivan states they haven't seen a change in threat.
Personally, I think Putin is bluffing. This is a guy who is so deathly scared of COVID, he sits across a mile long table. And you think he's going to be the one to start a nuclear war? He knows that means bombs landing in Moscow and at his mini-Versailles in Sochi. But we can never be 100% certain so the threat has to be taken seriously. And Biden is right to worry about an escalation spiral.
All that said, nothing increases the risk of nuclear war like rewarding nuclear blackmail and allowing the aggressor to escalate their commitment till they can't back down. This is partly why it now looks so irresponsible that the West didn't arm the Ukrainians earlier and even now only drip in weapons. It's a funny joke that Russia has become the largest arms supplier to Ukraine and is fueling all the recent Ukrainian advances. But it shouldn't have been the case.
DSC
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Interesting report on CNN re Wagner mercenaries. https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/06/europe/wagner-ukraine-struggles-marat-gabidullin-cmd-intl/index.html
kEiThZ
Superstar
Good. The amount of horrific things these guys have done, especially in Africa, deserves a response. Unfortunately the Ukrainians have to be merciful to them for PR reasons, even though they aren't entitled to LOAC protections.
Putin’s Shadow Soldiers: How the Wagner Group Is Expanding in Africa (Published 2022)
Best known for its mercenaries, the Wagner Group also mines diamonds, spreads disinformation and props up autocrats in an effort to grow Russia’s footprint.
Main Target of Russian Mercenaries in Africa Is Civilians, Report Says (Published 2022)
Newly released data seen by The New York Times suggests that the Kremlin-affiliated Wagner Group plays a central role in violence against civilians in the Central African Republic and Mali.
Russian mercenaries ‘exploiting Africa to fund war in Ukraine’
US ambassador to the UN said Wagner Group are trafficking natural resources from African nations
www.theguardian.com
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Good. The amount of horrific things these guys have done, especially in Africa, deserves a response. Unfortunately the Ukrainians have to be merciful to them for PR reasons, even though they aren't entitled to LOAC protections.
Putin’s Shadow Soldiers: How the Wagner Group Is Expanding in Africa (Published 2022)
Best known for its mercenaries, the Wagner Group also mines diamonds, spreads disinformation and props up autocrats in an effort to grow Russia’s footprint.www.nytimes.com
Main Target of Russian Mercenaries in Africa Is Civilians, Report Says (Published 2022)
Newly released data seen by The New York Times suggests that the Kremlin-affiliated Wagner Group plays a central role in violence against civilians in the Central African Republic and Mali.
Russian mercenaries ‘exploiting Africa to fund war in Ukraine’
US ambassador to the UN said Wagner Group are trafficking natural resources from African nations
These guys should be shipped to Guantanamo and worked over.
AoD
kEiThZ
Superstar
If the Ukrainians didn't need POWs to help get back their own, I'd be okay with them offing these guys on contact.
Calling them a "private army" obscures the fact that they are basically state sponsored terrorists. They are effectively no different than ISIS or Al Qaeda.
kEiThZ
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DSC
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Though they are clearly thugs, I am not sure that the Guantanamo stuff has done much to improve the image of the west in general or the US in particular. (or even that it has 'worked.") If we sink to their levels (tempting though it may be) we are not 'better than them" and we should, at least, TRY to be.
kEiThZ
Superstar
The irony of Gitmo is that those prisoners were better off than any Westerners caught by AQ, Taliban or ISIS.
Also, Gitmo could have been closed much more easily if the home countries of these folks were willing to take them back. Many weren't. Just look at our shenanigans with Omar Khadr. And he was far less dangerous than most of the others the Americans wanted to return.
That said, I agree this didn't make the Americans look good. Should have tried them in Afghanistan by Afghans.
When it comes to the Wagnerites, the laws of Ukraine cover them quite well.
Also, Gitmo could have been closed much more easily if the home countries of these folks were willing to take them back. Many weren't. Just look at our shenanigans with Omar Khadr. And he was far less dangerous than most of the others the Americans wanted to return.
That said, I agree this didn't make the Americans look good. Should have tried them in Afghanistan by Afghans.
When it comes to the Wagnerites, the laws of Ukraine cover them quite well.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
From the thread above:
My hypothesis behind those payoffs: "Western parochialism and privilege-blindness" as
@KuldkeppMart
concisely put it, or "our country first, Ukraine second" mentality. Nuclear fear-mongering captivates the minds of the general public in the West. 6/20
You can already see some disinformation attempts to massage that point across online.
AoD