Jasmine18
Senior Member
I think the assumption is people who dislike Trudeau are alt right but I think many would still back the liberals if they had a more moderate leader like Chretien.
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2019 Canadian Federal Election
- Thread starter christiesplits
- Start date
I think the assumption is people who dislike Trudeau are alt right but I think many would still back the liberals if they had a more moderate leader like Chretien.
steveintoronto
Superstar
"moderate" by what measure?
Chretien is my kind of man. He's a thug, a bully, a manipulator and his French is as bad as his English, and he had a proclivity to throttle innocent bystanders mistaking them for hecklers. But he was one of Canada's most effective PMs for generations. He had international respect, real respect, not the feigned fancy frivolity of 'Cdns are leaders of the world' Justin.
Even when he talked in circles, you knew exactly what he meant:
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/jean_chretien_145285
Chretien stood up to Blair and Bush, and many other 'leaders' at a time it was unpopular to doing so, and he was 'proven' not only right, but absolutely right.
I'll take that kind of PM any day of the woosy pussy Justins and Andrews.
Thorns_Embrace
Active Member
I mean people attack Scheer for being secretly pro-life or something so this criticism of Trudeau is equally valid.
Scheer isn't secretly "pro-life", he is "pro-life". He has simply agreed not to open the abortion debate. He is in fact given a "green light" by the Campaign Life Coalition, although they are concerned about his "ability to stand on principle" https://www.voteprolife.ca/find/view/level/mp/id/259/name/andrew-scheer#bio
adma
Superstar
I'm not denying the Greens might surprise--a lot of the polling (and the recent BC byelection) points to this possibility/likelihood. However, judging from your reluctance to even *acknowledge* the NDP in the previous post, as if you were supremely confident they'll be wiped out on behalf of Greens and "independents"--and on top of, your going on during last year's provincial election about Schreiner inspiring and Horwath falling flat as the same-old same-old, ***even while the Orange wave was underway***--carries a bit of offputting "shill" about it; like you're the Hopkins123 of the Greens...
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Don't worry, adma, your beloved NDP will achieve the success they deserve, the level of which in the interest of forum decorum I won't comment on. 
As for Scheer being "pro-life": Who cares?
Who's anti-life? And anyway, the man's civilised enough not to push that particular belief on anyone so bringing it up is pointless and just a cheap reactionary reflex.
Like, mention the fact he doesn't give a shit about the planet if you're going after his character.
Ps: Chrétien was indeed a gangster.
Pps: There was an "orange wave" in last year's provincial election? Which province?
As for Scheer being "pro-life": Who cares?
Who's anti-life? And anyway, the man's civilised enough not to push that particular belief on anyone so bringing it up is pointless and just a cheap reactionary reflex.
Like, mention the fact he doesn't give a shit about the planet if you're going after his character.
Ps: Chrétien was indeed a gangster.
Pps: There was an "orange wave" in last year's provincial election? Which province?
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Never mind Scheer, criticisms of Trudeau are valid without the help of anyone to compare him to.
adma
Superstar
Don't worry, adma, your beloved NDP will achieve the success they deserve, the level of which in the interest of forum decorum I won't comment on.
Nothing to do with being *personally* beloved; and I'd be the first to say that Jagmeet's not in anything like the same position now that Andrea was in around late April/early May last year. But it's still not to the point of general election wipeout--and frankly, at this point, I'd still deem, on "infrastructural" grounds at least, the NDP to be better poised to gain seats within the 416 than the Greens are. Sure, a "relatively speaking" kind of "better poised"; and as it presently stands, the Cons are better poised still (not necessarily the same seats, of course), but...
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Justin stance on Abortion is rather purposefully divisive as well. He wants to import the Americanization of that issue to make a wedge issue for his party.
He gave a Mosque a summer grant that believes in a religion that is against Abortion and has questionable fundraising.
However, pretty much bans Christian organizations from getting the grant and seems to relish antagonizing them over that fact.
Charity suspended over terror financing concerns gets Canada Summer Jobs grant | Globalnews.ca
Although its charity status was suspended last September, ISNA-Canada has been approved for a $25,000 Canada Summer Jobs grant.
globalnews.ca
Like this whole debate around Abortion recently seems like a debate Trudeau wants to have rather then what Canadians are really focused on right now.
Videodrome
Senior Member
Scheer is a devout pro-life Catholic though. He is CPC leader because he sucked up to SoCons to get the Trost voters and still sends them coded messages.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Is he winking with his dimples?
Left dimple wink: don't worry, we're illegalising abortions as soon as we're in
Right dimple wink: we'll ban condoms
Double dimple wink: I'll make the pope minister of Canadian Heritage
Damn crafty bastard, eh?
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
It's fashionable with the self-righteous politically correct classes to pick favourites amongst specifically identifiable groups, don't ya know? A tribalised and balkanised society is easier to manipulate.
It's just another part of his identity politics drama production. Nothing new here.
Create bogeymen to scare people and attain/retain power. It's old hat. Trudeau thinks he's good at it, but I think* most Canadians are rational and reasonable people and aren't having it.
*--hope? :/
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
If by "infrastructural" you mean "dysfunctional electoral system", I think we might be on the same page.
Videodrome
Senior Member
You know what I mean. Part of winning is keeping a coalition of voters together and SoCons are part of that for the CPC.
adma
Superstar
Which sounds a bit like the same old sour grapes over FPTP vs proportional representation. But with PR presumably not forthcoming for 2019 (though who knows re 2023), you have live with the status quo, whether you're pleased with it or not.
Oh, and re
Uh, Ontario. The NDP nearly doubled their seat total, jumped into official opposition with a third of the vote (and except for the virtual dead heat minority of 1985, the largest OO seat total since 1902), and left the governing Liberals in the dust. True, they didn't win. And yes, those gains might be reversed next time, much as they were federally in 2015. But to deny that was an "orange wave" is like denying the same about Jack-mania in 2011, even if the NDP didn't win *that* time, either. It may not be a lasting moment...but it *was* a moment.
"Waves" aren't just about winning. Heck, I'd categorize the recent PEI election in terms of "Green Wave", even if the Greens didn't win and the seat totals (8 and maybe imminently 9) are minimal because PEI's PEI.