Avenue
Active Member
Yeah so that Toronto can blow 6 billion on a 1-stop Scarborough Subway extension.
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2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
Yeah so that Toronto can blow 6 billion on a 1-stop Scarborough Subway extension.
MisterF
Senior Member
To be fair, the former and current provincial governments were/are all in on that plan, or at least some version of it. So the money wouldn't be in better hands with the province when it comes to that file.
Fritter
Active Member
Mel Lastman was laughed at when he suggested it, but I still think that a new Province of Toronto should be created, and separated from the Province of Ontario. Population wise, Toronto should qualify as a Province, and I believe makes some political sense too. The issues of Kenora or Cornwall, are not necessarily the issues of Bay and Dundas, or Jane and Finch.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Agree with the rationale, but hard to do given the constitutional requirements. Also, it would make no sense to have a province the size of the City of Toronto proper - it should be the Golden Horseshoe - minimum (I am inclined to include Waterloo/Kitchener in the mix as well).
AoD
steveintoronto
Superstar
So do I, but the Province never will.
The powers to do these things are clearly laid out in The Constitution Act, and I just posted a legal analysis in the Keesmaat string:
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/jennifer-keesmaats-toronto.28778/page-5#post-1361074
Unless the Province (any province) wishes to sever off a parcel of land for the purpose of 'secession', talking of status is completely superfluous.
We do have to get behind a fight, a big one, but let's not waste precious time, effort and ammunition. We've got to hit targets that score.
Bit of a warning, albeit I'm not a barrister. Lastman didn't know what he was talking about (albeit a number of his observations have been valuable lately), nor does David Miller, who spoke recklessly as a lawyer the other day. He admitted (gist) "I haven't read the literature but..." What? It would only have taken him a few minutes to do so. Missteps like that can be, and invariably are fatal.
Even the smallest stumble in following due process and in stating the grounds for a case will be seized on by the Jackboots. (I'm right of centre, btw, but rationally so, what we're witnessing is *not* good conservatism).
This case can be won, I give it well over 90% probability of winning, and *indirectly* we have the Feds behind us. Whether they'd care to help in the case, or even take intervenor status is a good question, Vaughan has been openly vociferous, but Constitutionally, it's fraught with danger to 'interfere' unless there's a compelling case for the Feds. They might well be quietly assembling one behind closed doors.
Whatever, Ford et al are moving but easy targets. One thing clearly on 'our side' is that they're flailing wildly. I think it's a matter of time until Ford is 'offed'...he's clearly becoming a liability for stable governance.
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Leo_Chan
Senior Member
Where would Queen's Park move to as the capital of Ontario if Toronto was another province?
narduch
Senior Member
Kingston?
steveintoronto
Superstar
It's not going to happen, and even if it did, there's many instances of City States that have the assembly for the surrounding region in their metropolis.
I wouldn't extend quite as far as Kitchener-Waterloo, but I would extend to at least Niagara Falls, or even just north of Niagara Falls, in order to provide for a direct crossing between the new Province and the US (via Hwy 405 and possibly Hwy 420).
Well London was originally planned as the capital, so that would be a logical location. But I agree Kingston would be another good one.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I would - just because economically it is more symbiotic with Toronto, and it will probably be part of the commutershed of the central city in the future.
AoD
Avenue
Active Member
I don't get it. Doug Ford would still win in that new province. The proposed boundaries above sounds as awful as the rest of Ontario.
crs1026
Superstar
My fear is that the seccession idea - which is out of the blue and not yet socialised with the electorate, especially in the suburbs - may backfire and become Keesmaat's undoing in the mayoral race. Whatever its merits, it's radical in many "average" peoples' eyes. The average voter will be scared off.
JK needs to distance herself from a "just not ready" backlash. Don't scare the voters, wait and sell the idea once you are elected.
- Paul
JK needs to distance herself from a "just not ready" backlash. Don't scare the voters, wait and sell the idea once you are elected.
- Paul
Towered
Superstar
That would be a big mistake. Then you would have all those awful suburbs setting he agenda instead of downtown, which is the point. You would just have the same problem again on a smaller scale.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Yeah, I think two issues are being confused here: Toronto's self determination, and Super Regional government.
Toronto has far more in common with most larger cities in Ontario than it does with the 905 region, or the Golden Horseshoe outside of Hamilton and perhaps a few smaller cities in the horseshoe. Or even Toronto's own suburbs!
Keesmaat has now shrugged off the "secession" comment as exactly as I thought: A means to get her declaring on the front pages.
Toronto needs to stand her ground against vindictive and destructive attempts of Doug Ford et al. This is winnable in court on the Charter counts.