2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[BurlOak]

So, I’m that “anyone” who would vote Liberal, especially if a vote for the NDP is considered unsless. If I think DoFo is looking to revisit religious schools or widespread civil service cuts, then I’ll look leftward again. However, if DoFo promises to undo the carbon taxes, reduce the massive electricity costs that make our industries uncompetitive, promises to undo wind power scam/insider contracts I’ll consider PC. If electoral reform is on the table, getting rid of FPTP, I’m in.

• if DoFo promises to undo the carbon taxes, YES
• reduce the massive electricity costs that make our industries uncompetitive, MAYBE (see next point)
• promises to undo wind power scam/insider contracts, YES (where cancellation are not excessive).

 

[animatronic]

A few thoughts from my armchair:

Ford's win: Pollsters, yet again, missed the ball. Everyone should have seen this coming. As Martin Regg Cohn mentioned in The Star, Ford's win was a backlash against the PC party establishment, solidified under Brown and passed to torch bearers Mulroney and Elliot. Ford has now made relatively safe Liberal pockets in Peel and the Toronto inner burbs (Scarborough, North York and Etobicoke), very competitive.

Wynne's next move: Study everything about Hillary Clinton's campaign, and do the complete opposite. Don't lose sight of your base, don't hold your nose to your opponent's supporters, and forget digging any dirt on your opponent. The Fords, like Trump, are Teflon and will deflect even the harshest allegations or dug up news clips.

Horwath's next move: Study the Bernie and Corbyn playbook: Move further to the left, stick to key populist messaging e.g. "the 99%," and be angry as hell.

I thought the pollsters nailed it. Mainstreet predicted super close with a 53% chance of an Elliott win. That’s basically what happened. Super close and the Ford win fit the parameters (e.g., known sampling error) of the survey.

 

[BurlOak]

I consider myself right of centre of many issues, but I voted Liberal last time because I couldn’t support the PCs terminating 100,000 civil servants when my family and friends are counted among them. I voted Liberal the time before that because I couldn’t support the PCs funding potentially Islamist madrassas and other fundamentalist or mainstream religious schools (one’s too many, but no one will touch the RC system). I voted NDP before that because Ernie Eves was useless and I liked Howard Hampton. The last time I voted PC was for Mike Harris in 1999 and 1995.

If I recall correctly, Harris promised to fire public service (and he did), while Hudak promised to use attrition. Liberal spin was that Hudak would fire 100,000 civil servants.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I think this election will see a much higher turnout and Wynne cant count on a 50% turnout to propel her to false majorities anymore.

Did our electoral system change over night? False majorities are here to stay, don't you worry, whoever the beneficiary might be.

 

[kEiThZ]

I have said it before. And I'll say it again. People on this forum really underestimate suburban anger. I've seen it first hand in Scarborough. The only question for me is how much of the 905 shares that.

And you're not going to stave off Ford by calling him a drug dealer and lazy. To people already angry with your performance that comes off as shrill and desperate deflection.

The Liberals have 3 months to blanket the 905, Ottawa and Northern Ontario. They need to steal from the NDP. And start pandering to the middle class suburbs they've largely ignored.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I have said it before. And I'll say it again. People on this forum really underestimate suburban anger. I've seen it first hand in Scarborough. The only question for me is how much of the 905 shares that.

And you're not going to stave off Ford by calling him a drug dealer and lazy. To people already angry with your performance that comes off as shrill and desperate deflection.

The Liberals have 3 months to blanket the 905, Ottawa and Northern Ontario. They need to steal from the NDP. And start pandering to the middle class suburbs they've largely ignored.

And having real talking point to explain ehealth, Ornge, gas plants, autism funding, windpower insider contracts, deficits, etc, etc, would help.

 

[Jasmine18]

Doug Ford is going to throw a lot of mud at Wynne and just rile up the populace.

Considering she is deeply unpopular and already deep in mud for being in power for years, I imagine Doug Ford is going to go non stop with corrupt, bad, evil Wynne.


By doing so he will alienate a lot of voters but draw in people who normally would not vote in Ontario elections or for PCs.

Like I dont understand how Ford areas in Toronto are going to magically stick to Liberals if they are still so Pro Ford after the Rob Ford Saga.

 

[PinkLucy]

I am sure Doug will swap out his #CrookedChristine hashtag for #CrookedKathleen. He will probably have his base chanting "lock her up". He's not terribly original.

Totally anecdotal, but I know a number of rather hard-core PC supporters who despise Wynne but all of them are upset with Doug's victory. They don't like his past record, and they don't like his chances against Wynne. They think the PCs have messed this up terribly.

 

[Jasmine18]

Does it ever occur to you that you diminish yourself and your beliefs every time you post nonsense like this?

You would like people to consider voting Conservative, who have not voted that way in recent times.

You then proceed to wholesale trash those people you would need to win over and their beliefs.

I don't know if you have it in you to be less lopsided, extreme, hyperbolic and downright offensive, but I would strongly encourage you to try.

I am not a partisan Liberal (or a partisan of any other party).

I'm not an ideologue.

I'm not naive about corruption or corrosive influences in politics.

There's plenty I find disagreeable about the choices made by the current provincial government, particularly in its earlier years.

So you should be able to make a convincing case to me about where I might park my vote in the next election.

But I can't bring myself to take anything you say seriously when its so filled with hate and invective. I'm shocked I haven't heard yet how the Liberals are the Axis of Evil; or the 'evil-doers' your rhetoric is but one step shy of that.

Why not actually critique policy?

Why not actually point out where your preferred party could do better?

The Ontario Liberals have made life harder for the people of this province and now have changed the course that as they are now threatened with extinction in the election. Min wage was an issue 5 years, so was hydro and workers rights... now she is our champion?

They have wasted billions in corruption like the gas plants and seemed rather engaged in the worst kind of politics to stay in power.

To me the liberals need to be thrown out office so a new breed can take over and lead a new path in the future.

 

[Jasmine18]

I am sure Doug will swap out his #CrookedChristine hashtag for #CrookedKathleen. He will probably have his base chanting "lock her up". He's not terribly original.

Totally anecdotal, but I know a number of rather hard-core PC supporters who despise Wynne but all of them are upset with Doug's victory. They don't like his past record, and they don't like his chances against Wynne. They think the PCs have messed this up terribly.

Imo I have a feeling to useat Wynne, the base will Rally.

 

[steveintoronto]

I just can't wrap my mind around why anyone would vote Liberal.

"Doug Ford".

 

[kEiThZ]

And having real talking point to explain ehealth, Ornge, gas plants, autism funding, windpower insider contracts, deficits, etc, etc, would help.

Yes and no. The people who care about Ornge, gas plants, etc. are already voting PC.

They real risk here is that Ford taps into a ton of middle class resentment for the Liberals. Go and talk to an average voter in Scarborough or Brampton. They don't perceive any tangible benefit from all that Liberal spending. And that is what has them mad.

The public is very tolerant of government overspending, as long as it benefits them personally or their community. And there's a huge segment of the population that doesn't think Liberal largesse has benefitted them much.

 

[kEiThZ]

I am sure Doug will swap out his #CrookedChristine hashtag for #CrookedKathleen. He will probably have his base chanting "lock her up". He's not terribly original.

The point of politics is to win. Not to be original. If it works, why mess with it?

 

[PinkLucy]

Huh. And here I thought the point of politics was to do something to help your city/province/country succeed and prosper.

 

[kEiThZ]

Huh. And here I thought the point of politics was to do something to help your city/province/country succeed and prosper.

To get to that stage you have to win an election. Self-evident no? Why play pointless gotcha games?

Policymaking is the reward you get for politicking well.