2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion

[steveintoronto]

Elizabeth May can't possibly be worse than me at work in how I speak to my colleagues at times.

What Party are you leader of? The Office Party?

Kathleen set the bar for creepy.

Cross your legs when she's around!

See how that works? I agree, and have stated so previously. *ANY* of those leaders, save precious few, have skeletons, creepy or otherwise, in their closests.

What astounds me is that they're setting a trap alright, one they themselves can fall into by being so sanctimonious and reactionary, and ignoring the norms of considered reaction and deference to due process just to climb over the injured bodies to get to the lifeboats.

A pox on all of them! Lisa Raitt is a classic case. Her words on Brown were absolute vitriol. I muttered a four letter word to describe her reading her announcement earlier.

There's no honour amongst perverts...

 

[OneCity]

yes - and Trudeau had zero educational experience for the job as well.

What is the Job? Take selfies, photo-ops, repeat the parties platform, hire a twitter to manage your account to keep the base engaged, and act with body language and act as if you are making the decisions in an attempt convince people to vote your party in. Go to bed. That's really it.

For what the actual job is Trudeau was over qualified TBH. The party platform may have some holes.

 

[BurlOak]

Basically there is nobody out there who wants to vote for Kathleen Wynne - maybe 16% do?

The PC's just need to pick someone who can string a few sentences together. The more important thing is to remain united and show that they are organized enough as a group to govern. Completing a leadership race in less than 2 months (with minimal in-fighting) would go a long way in demonstrating that.

Essentially the same way that Marc Garneau was the token candidate and didn't really challenge Trudeau during their leadership campaign. At that time, I think every Liberal realized they couldn't beat Harper, or even Mulcair, based on intelligence, so they figured their only path to victory was through nostalgia.

 

[BurlOak]

What is the Job? Take selfies, photo-ops, and act as if you are making decisions and convince people to vote your party in. Go to bed That's really it.

Trudeau is liked by those who see the PM as a Governor General or King. He stands there and looks good and makes a prepared speech.
Those who think the PM should come up with policy to help Canada are the ones who tend to not like him.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What is the Job? Take selfies, photo-ops, repeat the parties platform, hire a twitter to manage your account to keep the base engaged and act as if you are making decisions and convince people to vote your party in. Go to bed. That's really it.

Regardless of who is on the seat, being PM isn't an easy job. Political differences aside, no one would have said Steven Harper's responsibilities are any less minor having to do exactly the same things. What do you think this job is - Toronto mayoralty under Ford where not reading reports beforehand and showing up drunk/high/incoherent/stupid is a virtue?

Those who think the PM should come up with policy to help Canada are the ones who tend to not like him.

Who are "those", exactly? Fraser institute makes for a poor sample.

AoD

 

[WislaHD]

Trudeau is liked by those who see the PM as a Governor General or King. He stands there and looks good and makes a prepared speech.
Those who think the PM should come up with policy to help Canada are the ones who tend to not like him.

Well, I always based my vote in 2015 on the quality of the cabinet, not on the quality of Justin as PM.

I think aside from a few (pretty significant) hiccups, the Liberal cabinet is still a strong one.

 

[SunriseChampion]

From today's Globe and Mail, written by Justin Giovanetti:

"Mr Brown's sister, Stephanie Brown, posted a statement on Facebook Friday morning in his defence.
'What happened to my brother was disgusting. And make no mistake, he is the victim,' she wrote in a public post. 'These completely false allegations were 100-per-cent politically motivated and nothing more than a political hit. I know them for a fact to be untrue.'"

For whatever that's worth.

+++
May didn't sell herself as someone believing in smiles, rainbows, pillows and blankies but as someone believing in ending corporate welfare to oil companies (and others) and reforming our rubbish (adjective mine) electoral system (among other things, none of which are rainbows and smiles and being overly saccharine). At least that's why I voted for her in our leadership race way back when. I most certainly didn't vote for the Care Bears to be brought to life.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

May didn't sell herself as someone believing in smiles, rainbows, pillows and blankies but as someone believing in ending corporate welfare to oil companies (and others) and reforming our rubbish (adjective mine) electoral system (among other things, none of which are rainbows and smiles and being overly saccharine). At least that's why I voted for her in our leadership race way back when. I most certainly didn't vote for the Care Bears to be brought to life.

Not that I am going to go bananas over this current kerfuffle around May, but she was fairly vocal around the issue of civility and respect - particularly in Parliament.

AoD

 

[steveintoronto]

Not that I am going to go bananas over this current kerfuffle around May, but she was fairly vocal around the issue of civility and respect - particularly in Parliament.

AoD

And that's a good part of my view on all of this. Everyone gets their affronted knickers in a knot over even the vaguest hint of 'sexuality', wanted or not. It's so incredibly Anglo, albeit the Brits are genuflecting in the form of knee-jerks because it's all so 'naughty' while polls show the clear majority of Brits may not like that being a national political characteristic, but accept it as being normal. Meantime the politicos are clambouring over each other to show how 'high and mighty and pure' each of them is, all the time looking up trousers and skirts to say it. Basically, those who cry 'purity' the loudest are those that are straining against their own past.

And the point on May may not be sexual, but it's still a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'. It's *rampant* in politics. Like almost everyone caught out in the squeal game, they're the ones that got caught, the others haven't.

By all means axe Brown. Politics is a Game of Thrones. But not on the rampant hypocrisy of what's been presented so far.

 

[BurlOak]

And that's a good part of my view on all of this. Everyone gets their affronted knickers in a knot over even the vaguest hint of 'sexuality', wanted or not. It's so incredibly Anglo, albeit the Brits are genuflecting in the form of knee-jerks because it's all so 'naughty' while polls show the clear majority of Brits may not like that being a national political characteristic, but accept it as being normal. Meantime the politicos are clambouring over each other to show how 'high and mighty and pure' each of them is, all the time looking up trousers and skirts to say it. Basically, those who cry 'purity' the loudest are those that are straining against their own past.

And the point on May may not be sexual, but it's still a case of 'do as I say, not as I do'. It's *rampant* in politics. Like almost everyone caught out in the squeal game, they're the ones that got caught, the others haven't.

By all means axe Brown. Politics is a Game of Thrones. But not on the rampant hypocrisy of what's been presented so far.

Remember this incident. May lost all credibility and its a sad statement on the people of Vancouver Island who voted for again after this.

Interesting note is that the only one with enough compassion to remove the inebriately Elizabeth May from the stage was Lisa Raitt.

 

[steveintoronto]

Remember this incident. May lost all credibility and its a sad statement on the people of Vancouver Island who voted for again after this.

The only one with enough compassion to remove the inebriately Elizabeth May from the stage was Lisa Raitt.

As painful as this is, I agree, even on Raitt. Raitt scares me, but at least she was the only one to show some compassion in a very awkward situation. But let's make this a learning example of how easy it is, how easy it's *been*, to choose leaders who lack the ability to shine in the limelight.

For all his shortcomings (and the 'umm, aargh, umm' is a good part of Justin's) he stands tall in the floodlights. He *makes Canada look good* in international forums. Mulroney Sr did too. So did PET.

If it takes 'creed' to produce that, so be it, albeit tempered with being solidly grounded. Every glimpse at the QP Con lineup I take, I can't get past Al Pallidini spectre. Save for Chong, not leadership material, he's too nice, and Mulroney. She's got legs, literally and figuratively. She will get the female vote as much as male, because today's twenty-somethings can and will relate to her. And I relate to her because of that...*AND* she's transfixing in terms of intellectual/political ability.

Addendum on Mulroney: "she's transfixing in terms of intellectual/political ability". The Nafta situation isn't just on the Fed's shoulders, it's *disproportionately on Ontario's too*!

Would the Americans be far more willing to listen and take note of 'Son of Mulroney' (daughter actually) who can form a tag team with Chrystia? You betcha! And Caroline has extensive experience in investment banking.

This is about a hell of a lot more than Bum Dribble Bend Ontario. It's about taking this province in a more opportune direction, and getting respect doing it. Small Town Ontario just doesn't quite get the context, and yet the vast majority of voters are in urban areas. It's time to embrace that instead of catering to backwater sewer control.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Not that I am going to go bananas over this current kerfuffle around May, but she was fairly vocal around the issue of civility and respect - particularly in Parliament.

AoD

Yeah, I'll give you that. Though, to be fair, she has been exemplary in behaving in such a way in Parliament.
RE the drunk incident at the press gallery dinner: I got into a fair bit of trouble with some of my peers at an EDA meeting shortly thereafter when I vocalised my dim views of the incident in the style of some poorly-received jokes.

 

[SunriseChampion]

By all means axe Brown. Politics is a Game of Thrones. But not on the rampant hypocrisy of what's been presented so far.

To be fair, Brown could not have possibly stayed on as leader whether or not the accusations are true. Especially in light of revelations that past transgressions were made known to party apparatchiks before all of this blew up.

 

[steveintoronto]

Especially in light of revelations that past transgressions were made known to party apparatchiks before all of this blew up.

Ah...but that's one of the points of rampant hypocrisy, although we still haven't heard the facts of the case, may never hear them. Dykstra was not only told, he's on record of admitting it. If not all, most of the hierarchy knew. Not to piddle on McLeod's cloudburst though. What a conniving backstabbing "Oh Sir, oh sir! Guess what Patty Brown did! Sir, you're not listening, he was baaaaaad...."

She exactly epitomizes the cast-offs we get running for orifice...whoops, typo, my mistake...And Dykstra...well...lol...I'd best not play with that name...

 

[SunriseChampion]

True.

I'm really curious to find out how Brown's sister knows for a fact, as she claims, that these allegations are false.