2018 Municipal Election: Toronto Council Races

[steveintoronto]

Apologies for missing some of the excellent posts yesterday, trying to catch up now. @Richard White 's posted tweet #1421 is far more noteworthy than it may appear. I highly suspect Mulroney Sr is marshalling forces too. Caroline has herself in one hell of a mess, mostly, albeit indirectly, of her own choosing. I used the term "wet nurse to a moron" in a previous post. I stand by that. She better let it go before it sinks her, permanently. What corporation is going to view this on her CV as a 'positive job experience'? Remember, she's not a practicing lawyer in Ontario, so pulling a moron out of a hat, even if it was possible, is not going to count for anything even if she was at the Bar. (Apologies to the Mad Hatter)

I have reason to believe the "Notwithstanding Clause" isn't the end-all many believe. I think that in itself could be the case for a very high profile challenge to the Ontario Superior Appellate level, and then the SCC. Not the legislation as spelled out, but the *application*. Dare I use the phrase: "Constitutional Crisis" for this? Trudeau is front row centre to deal with this one. (Heads up to @rbt for prior discussions on the absoluteness of the legalities we were discussing in another string)

Nuff said on that for now. I'm sure it will come up in the media shortly.

Earlier, someone posted about contacting Caroline Mulroney.

Don't know exactly which post, but Mulroney (Caroline) could end up being "Deep Throat" revisited, or perhaps pen an 'anonymous insider' Op-Ed to the Globe and Mail. Deja Vu deluxe. (Cdn edition)

 

[Richard White]

But this proposal that Ford wait is disingenuous. We all know that if he waits, the next municipal election is after Ford's mandate, and maybe after he's out of power. So what we're really saying by asking for a "reasonable" delay is that we hope we can wait out Ford and the councilor count change never happens. Ford knows this too, know's he's being played by those making such proposals, and knows that if he wants to make this change during his time as premier, he must do it now. Ford also knows the electorate can and will judge his actions here in 3-1/2 years, and I'd say he's fine with that.

Randy Rath from CHCH news in Hamilton went on twitter to state that "seasoned and thoughtful" parliamentarians are apologizing for not speaking to him about this. They are being muzzled and I am starting to get the sense that his boneheaded moves are making caucus uneasy. He may think what he is doing is a good idea but he fails to realise he is the PREMIER OF ONTARIO and NOT the Mayor of Toronto. Ontario is bigger than just Toronto and if Doug Ford begins to retaliate against Toronto for what happened to him and Rob he will learn quickly about the legislative process.

I can see the Feds making life hell for him if he starts to go off on a personal vendetta such as he is. If the public and the feds turn against him, so will caucus.

 

[ttk77]

What is the link between more councillors and a better city though?
What you are talking about is the Ford Plan..

I am saying why do we need more than the 44 already?

Frankly, I could care less about the number of councillors 44,57,107, I think we need a stronger mayor system like in NYC and such. I feel those mayors actually have the power to push through grand ideas while the past few mayors of Toronto seem to get bog down endlessly as they have limited power.

The 44 ward system was not representative of Toronto's population. It gave disproportionate weight to suburban wards. There were extensive consultations and subsequent challenges where the 47 ward system won out as the best option. I choose to trust the judement of the experts and judges we put in place to decide these things over the uninformed opinions of right-wing populists who's knee-jerk reaction to any adversity seems to be to slash and burn government at every chance they get.

As for the strong mayor system, i would never support it unless there were even stronger measures in place that would prevent delusional idiots like the Ford brothers from inflicting their harmful ideas on us.

 

[Richard White]

@Richard White 's posted tweet is far more noteworthy than it may appear.

Earlier on when Doug mentioned cutting council mid-election, various Liberal MPs went on record to say that they would make life hard for Doug and would attempt to protect the City of Toronto. They did not elaborate at the time but I can see them reserving and disallowing Bill 5 on constitutional grounds.

THAT would be a major blow to Doug Ford and send a clear message to caucus.

Given the meeting last night, you can bet that Tory asked for Trudeau's help and that they have something up their sleeves.

 

[ttk77]

I think it's more your boss redefining your job title to be more of a manager than actually the one doing the work.
I think that happens to about everyone.

The first and most important job of a politician, especially at a local level is representing their constituents. If i have an issue with city governance, i want to talk to my elected politician, not a bureaucrat. If city councilors are to act as managers, we need elected community councils at a more local level.

 

[Miscreant]

Earlier on when Doug mentioned cutting council mid-election, various Liberal MPs went on record to say that they would make life hard for Doug and would attempt to protect the City of Toronto. They did not elaborate at the time but I can see them reserving and disallowing Bill 5 on constitutional grounds.

THAT would be a major blow to Doug Ford and send a clear message to caucus.

Given the meeting last night, you can bet that Tory asked for Trudeau's help and that they have something up their sleeves.

Well, perhaps--I won't be surprised if you're right. Nor will be all that disappointed. But if Ford went nuclear yesterday, then the Trudeau gov't stepping in and blocking this puts an exponent beside the detonator.

We can kiss goodbye even a modicum of cooperation between the levels of gov't for at least 1 year, and probably longer since my money's on Trudeau forming the next government.

 

[steveintoronto]

...I believe him yesterday when he said it's 'shocking' that the judiciary can limit the reach of the legislative branch. But that's because for Ford 'democracy' is simple arithmetic whose sum value is held fixed for four years until there's another election. He literally understands democracy as majoritarian rule, plain and simple.

Every time I hear him try to talk (it's so freakin' obvious he's reading a teleprompter, I don't which is worse, with or without it) I'm reminded of:

Urko: Ahh yes. I seem to remember hearing something vaguely about that; *Brain washing*. Isn't that where you take the brain out of the skull and wash it with cool water?

Wanda: No, no. You don't take the brain out of the skull.

Urko: You don't - Well how can you wash the brain if you don't take it out of the skull?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0675110/quotes

General Urko Ford...

 

[Miscreant]

It's all classic Ford: government through disruption and chaos, all the while not coming even close to realizing that this method shows anyone with a modicum of intelligence that the chaos results not from some overarching 'philosophy' of governing, but from incompetence and buffoonery.

 

[steveintoronto]

We can kiss goodbye even a modicum of cooperation between the levels of gov't for at least 1 year, and probably longer since my money's on Trudeau forming the next government.

This has a high probability of happening anyway. I think it's unavoidable at this rate. Let me go further: Trudeau has a *responsibility* to put a stop to this, for many reasons, not least as Delacourt posts in the TorStar:
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...itician-to-find-the-charter-inconvenient.html

Edit to Add: The way the Feds (and this will be cross-party, creating a schism in the Fed PCs)(which is why it will be mostly the PCs Emeritus, Clark (especially) Mulroney, etc) will deal with this is not by trying to re-open Leach Make (sic) but by calling a sitting of the SCC on it. The SCC doesn't have to be petitioned the way lower courts are. They can be petitioned (IIRC) by the sitting Gov't. I'll try and reference that later.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

But this proposal that Ford wait is disingenuous. We all know that if he waits, the next municipal election is after Ford's mandate, and maybe after he's out of power. So what we're really saying by asking for a "reasonable" delay is that we hope we can wait out Ford and the councilor count change never happens. Ford knows this too, know's he's being played by those making such proposals, and knows that if he wants to make this change during his time as premier, he must do it now. Ford also knows the electorate can and will judge his actions here in 3-1/2 years, and I'd say he's fine with that.

Not really. If the legislation to remake the council passes after the Nov. municipal election, it would still be in force prior to the next one in 2022 unless there is an explicit action from the incoming government to recind it - and doing so with a few months notice will create the same problem of meddling right in the middle of a campaign.

As to the electorate - which electorate?

AoD

 

[syn]

This has a high probability of happening anyway. I think it's unavoidable at this rate. Let me go further: Trudeau has a *responsibility* to put a stop to this, for many reasons, not least as Delacourt posts in the TorStar:
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...itician-to-find-the-charter-inconvenient.html

Edit to Add: The way the Feds (and this will be cross-party, creating a schism in the Fed PCs)(which is why it will be mostly the PCs Emeritus, Clark (especially) Mulroney, etc) will deal with this is not by trying to re-open Leach Make (sic) but by calling a sitting of the SCC on it. The SCC doesn't have to be petitioned the way lower courts are. They can be petitioned (IIRC) by the sitting Gov't. I'll try and reference that later.

I recall during the election Ford said he'd fight the carbon tax, and that he wouldn't accept the Federal Government telling Ontario what to do.

Now he's doing the same to Toronto.

I wouldn't mind the Feds getting involved, if only to witness Doug's response.

 

[steveintoronto]

Earlier on when Doug mentioned cutting council mid-election, various Liberal MPs went on record to say that they would make life hard for Doug and would attempt to protect the City of Toronto. They did not elaborate at the time but I can see them reserving and disallowing Bill 5 on constitutional grounds.

THAT would be a major blow to Doug Ford and send a clear message to caucus.

Given the meeting last night, you can bet that Tory asked for Trudeau's help and that they have something up their sleeves.

Exactly. This was a point @rbt and I were discussing. The most vociferous was Adam Vaughan (words to the effect of 'yes, the City is a creature of the province, but we can fund them directly). That string of discussion is about to explode, and more.

Keep on it Richard, you're getting the pulse from the jugular...

Not really. If the legislation to remake the council passes after the Nov. municipal election, it would still be in force prior to the next one in 2022 unless there is an explicit action from the incoming government to recind it - and doing so with a few months notice will create the same problem of meddling right in the middle of a campaign.

As to the electorate - which electorate?

AoD

THIS in itself is the making of another court petition for hearing, one the Feds could join! (Did I mention "Constitutional Crisis"?). Leach Make will not be revisited. It doesn't have to be, as it wasn't for the SCC to 'determine' the 'language of secession' for Quebec.

It's coming to blows anyway between Ont and the Feds, best to do a pre-emptive attack before Ford gets his Trimotors off the runway.
Ford Trimotor - Wikipedia

Btw: Got to laugh at the Ford division which built these:
Manufacturer Stout Metal Airplane Division of the Ford Motor Company

In Ontario's case, 'Metal' would have an added 'n'

 

[steveintoronto]

Further to what I alluded to above, this is just a first stab, it may not be the best citation, but be aware of this:

[...]
4.2 References Regarding The Constitution And Other Matters
Unlike Governor in Council references regarding Parliament's authority relative to proposed or enacted legislation, certain references seek answers to other legal questions, most often concerning the interpretation of Canada's Constitution.

In the 1929 Reference re meaning of the word "Persons" in s. 24 of British North America Act, the Supreme Court was asked whether women were included in the meaning of "persons" such that women could serve in the Senate of Canada.36 Similarly, in Reference whether "Indians" includes "Eskimo" (known today as Inuit), the Governor in Council asked the Court to clarify whether the term "Indians" in the British North America Act included the Inuit of the Province of Quebec.37

Beyond clarifying the interpretation of Canada's Constitution, references may inspire future legislation. For example, the Governor in Council submitted constitutional and international law questions to the Supreme Court in the Reference re Secession of Quebec.38 Subsequently, Parliament enacted An Act to give effect to the requirement for clarity as set out in the opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada in the Quebec Secession Reference, known as the Clarity Act.39 This legislation directly addressed elements of the Court's reference decision.

Although, as in the Clarity Act example, some references may lead to statutory changes that Parliament can enact alone, other reference decisions may indicate that amendments to the Constitution are required. For example, in Reference re Senate Reform, the Supreme Court clarified, among other things, the scope of changes to the Senate of Canada that could be accomplished by Parliament acting alone, and what modifications would require constitutional amendment with the consent of some or all of the provinces.40

Beyond constitutional questions, some references seek clarity on other legal matters. For example, in Reference as to Powers to Levy Rates on Foreign Legations, the Governor in Council asked the Supreme Court to determine whether the City of Ottawa could charge property tax on certain properties of foreign governments, such as the Office and Residence of the High Commissioner for the United Kingdom.41 In concluding that the City did not have this power, the Court interpreted and applied various principles of international law.

4.3 Lieutenant Governor In Council References On Appeal

[...]

https://lop.parl.ca/Content/LOP/ResearchPublications/2015-44-e.html?cat=government#a5

It's not the details above that are the point...it's the *Mechanism*!

Ford is completely out of control. He has to be stopped, not just for Ontario, but for the Good of the Nation. And this just might present Trudeau Jr with the Gift from Manna as per re-election and Cause d'Etre. Daddy will be pleased. And rightly so.

Is this going to cause a lot of wounds? You betcha, but as stated prior, Ford is looking for a fight anyway. You don't take Moron Oafs on directly, you trip them and let them injure themselves by their own massive body weight.

Ford is going down, one way or another...

Addendum: And chances are good that Ford's demise will be by the oft spoken of Palace Coup. Maybe Caroline can yet be one of the 'Resistance'...Ford isn't 'Good Conservatism' by any means.

 

[Richard White]

Further to what I alluded to above, this is just a first stab, it may not be the best citation, but be aware of this:
View attachment 156297

https://lop.parl.ca/Content/LOP/ResearchPublications/2015-44-e.html?cat=government#a5

It's not the details above that are the point...it's the *Mechanism*!

Ford is completely out of control. He has to be stopped, not just for Ontario, but for the Good of the Nation. And this just might present Trudeau Jr with the Gift from Manna as per re-election and Cause d'Etre. Daddy will be pleased. And rightly so.

Is this going to cause a lot of wounds? You betcha, but as stated prior, Ford is looking for a fight anyway. You don't take Moron Oafs on directly, you trip them and let them injure themselves by their own massive body weight.

Ford is going down, one way or another...

I still say that if Ford gets crazy enough, the LG may dissolve the legislature on her own authority.

 

[animatronic]

I still say that if Ford gets crazy enough, the LG may dissolve the legislature on her own authority.

She won't. That's not her job. If he has the support of the house she has no latitude to exercise reserve powers.