christiesplits
Senior Member
Wynne looks really nervous and rigid. Really out of character for her. Compare her to the smooth delivery from McGuinty in 2011.
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2014 Ontario Provincial Election
- Thread starter ShonTron
- Start date
gabe
Senior Member
Hudak says he'll resign if he can't create 1M jobs over eight years. (Used car salesman ploy)
jje1000
Senior Member
So the general verdict seems to be that Hudak did the best out of the three, through generally there were no knockout hits or anything inspiring of sorts.
What needs to be seen is whether or not people were paying attention at all...
What needs to be seen is whether or not people were paying attention at all...
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cdr108
Senior Member
Wynne seemed too nervous and repeated what sounded like a RoFo excuse "I've apologized ... ";
Hudak was the slickest and as much as he tried to goad Wynne to accept for the failures of McGuinty , he still wouldn't admit to his failure with flawed math on the 1 million jobs plan;
Horvath did okay but she essentially is campaigning on the same platform as Wynn, so why force the gov't into an election and waste millions and time.
Hudak was the slickest and as much as he tried to goad Wynne to accept for the failures of McGuinty , he still wouldn't admit to his failure with flawed math on the 1 million jobs plan;
Horvath did okay but she essentially is campaigning on the same platform as Wynn, so why force the gov't into an election and waste millions and time.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
If Hudak wins, Horvath will have to walk the plank, having rejected the most NDP-friendly budget in years, only to have it replaced by the most NDP-counter budget in a decade.
Tewder
Senior Member
I think we need to be careful characterizing people as 'gullible' just because they hold a different opinion... and refusing to look at all platforms strikes me as blinkered partisanship at its worst. I'm just not really sure who this serves?
Tewder
Senior Member
Question to put out there...
How are others reconciling the Liberal track record of scandals and wasted funds (gas plants, Ehealth, ornge etc), and what would essentially be rewarding them for these things by casting a vote for them? Even if Liberal campaign promises are more in line with with what you may want (transit etc) is there a fundamental credibility issue at hand, and is it simply a matter of ethics that you do not vote for a party that has been caught abusing its authority? Those who are partisan will vote for a party no matter what, but others are struggling with this very question, and it likely will have a huge impact on the outcome of the election. I'm just curious to understand how others are dealing with this.
... and I'm not trying to set this up where the Liberals are inherently worse than the PCs, or vice versa. They've all had their scandals and abuses in the past. It's just that normally the electorate tends to punish the party in question, which in this case is the current Liberal regime, Wynne or no.
How are others reconciling the Liberal track record of scandals and wasted funds (gas plants, Ehealth, ornge etc), and what would essentially be rewarding them for these things by casting a vote for them? Even if Liberal campaign promises are more in line with with what you may want (transit etc) is there a fundamental credibility issue at hand, and is it simply a matter of ethics that you do not vote for a party that has been caught abusing its authority? Those who are partisan will vote for a party no matter what, but others are struggling with this very question, and it likely will have a huge impact on the outcome of the election. I'm just curious to understand how others are dealing with this.
... and I'm not trying to set this up where the Liberals are inherently worse than the PCs, or vice versa. They've all had their scandals and abuses in the past. It's just that normally the electorate tends to punish the party in question, which in this case is the current Liberal regime, Wynne or no.
WislaHD
Superstar
You are right, by all means the Liberals should be voted out of office, but the alternatives are either not good enough, or blatantly harmful. Neither am I convinced the other two parties would be any less prone to scandals than the Liberals (Horwath and Hudak were in favor of moving the gas plants for instance), at least Wynne has apologized and declared her commitment to preventing this stuff again.
I am willing to stomach the Liberals for a few more years if it means that transit in Ontario continues moving as planned and the PC and NDP sack their leaders and reevaluate their platform. Then maybe next election we can face an electoral choice that doesn't involve "voting for the least harmful party".
I am willing to stomach the Liberals for a few more years if it means that transit in Ontario continues moving as planned and the PC and NDP sack their leaders and reevaluate their platform. Then maybe next election we can face an electoral choice that doesn't involve "voting for the least harmful party".
nfitz
Superstar
If Hudak get's a majority government. If not, she does have the option of trying to form a coalition government with either party, to save her skin. If she was a minister, she won't walk.
sixrings
Senior Member
This is why i am voting red as well. Punishing the liberals is not a good enough reason to halt transit at this moment. Transit plans should be made to withstand any government change. Instead it gets used as a political weapon or makes it to the chopping block. The gas plant makes me SMH as a liberal. The promises to the teachers by mcguinty make me SMH as well. But transit in this city and region is brutal and they are the only ones promising anything realistic.
typezed
Active Member
Although the Liberals might deserve some time off, there just isn't a clean alternative. I did have early hopes that Wynne would prove a stronger leader than McGuinty, but have been disappointed by the calculated decisions on the Scarborough subway and revenue tools. She has been saddled by a big burden of the Liberals' past performance, that unfortunately she has failed to separate herself from. The Gas Plants or Ornge or E-Health don't really seem so much scandals to me, but big projects that were mismanaged and would be mismanaged in some variation by whomever was in power. As someone who wants a centrist, somewhat progressive, approach to advancing the province, I'm able to make that rationalization. The Gas Plant decision is to me a commentary on the failure of all the parties, as they all exploited them in a politically cynical manner.
jje1000
Senior Member
Definitely my thoughts as well. If Hudak simply indicated that all existing transit projects would continue as is, he would have been a slam dunk for me. I don't even mind his 100,000 employee cut nor his 1,000,000 bogus jobs plan.
But uploading only the profitable parts of the TTC, thus ruining it forever? Cancelling LRT projects around the province? Removing the Greenbelt? Proposing new highways? Cancelling Go Electrification? Promising the DRL only after the deficit is eliminated (a moving deadline?)? And not a single cent more for transit subsidies?
These are completely unacceptable for this city.
But uploading only the profitable parts of the TTC, thus ruining it forever? Cancelling LRT projects around the province? Removing the Greenbelt? Proposing new highways? Cancelling Go Electrification? Promising the DRL only after the deficit is eliminated (a moving deadline?)? And not a single cent more for transit subsidies?
These are completely unacceptable for this city.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I came into this election as a life long tory supporter (although not a party member) who was looking for a reason to vote Liberal. Very impressed with most of Murray's transit vision and if I rank issues transit and fiscal balance are 1 and 1a in my world.
I really wanted to find a way to get over my concerns about our deficits and debt to support the Murray transit plan.
Since the start of the election I have been trying to get an answer to what the plan was to eliminate the deficit in two years after this "one time" increase to $12.5B. Despite repeated attempts to find out how the Liberal party planned to eliminate a $12.5B deficit in two years while telling us that Hudak eliminating a $11.3B deficit in two years would be devastating to Ontario I came up empty. All I ever got was "it will be balanced...we commit to that".
So I may be one of the few Ontarians who last night actually did decide on his/her vote.......the repeated refusal last night to even attempt to answer the question was, frankly, insulting. What we were told last night was that every public service job is sacred (so no cuts there) as was every program (no cuts there) and that other than the increase in taxes on people earning $150k a year there would be no tax increase (without noting that this tax increase will only bring in about $600 million a year and is already factored into the $12.5B deficit...so it hardly balances anything).
So no new revenues planned, and no cuts to programs or employment....but assurances that the budget will be balanced in two years (well, two years after the current increase).
The fact that the Liberals are holding to the we will balance the budget commitment tells me that they know fine well that this is a very, very, important commitment to make. The fact that they are not willing to tell us how they get there tells me we won't get there and, sorry, their best chance to get my vote was lost last night.
I really wanted to find a way to get over my concerns about our deficits and debt to support the Murray transit plan.
Since the start of the election I have been trying to get an answer to what the plan was to eliminate the deficit in two years after this "one time" increase to $12.5B. Despite repeated attempts to find out how the Liberal party planned to eliminate a $12.5B deficit in two years while telling us that Hudak eliminating a $11.3B deficit in two years would be devastating to Ontario I came up empty. All I ever got was "it will be balanced...we commit to that".
So I may be one of the few Ontarians who last night actually did decide on his/her vote.......the repeated refusal last night to even attempt to answer the question was, frankly, insulting. What we were told last night was that every public service job is sacred (so no cuts there) as was every program (no cuts there) and that other than the increase in taxes on people earning $150k a year there would be no tax increase (without noting that this tax increase will only bring in about $600 million a year and is already factored into the $12.5B deficit...so it hardly balances anything).
So no new revenues planned, and no cuts to programs or employment....but assurances that the budget will be balanced in two years (well, two years after the current increase).
The fact that the Liberals are holding to the we will balance the budget commitment tells me that they know fine well that this is a very, very, important commitment to make. The fact that they are not willing to tell us how they get there tells me we won't get there and, sorry, their best chance to get my vote was lost last night.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Not trying to convince or move you but the fear of a moving deadline on the DRL should have been assuaged by the promise to resign if he did not balance the budget in 2 years.....no?
Bayer
Senior Member
That is not at all what I said. Gullibility was, for instance, believing that Mulroney "won" the debate against John Turner, who admitted he was powerless to stop Trudeau's patronage appointments. Turner appeared weak, but of course, Mulroney became a world champion of patronage as soon as he was elected. It is, in other words, believing that television debates and advertisements say anything relevant about a leader's ability to govern and their party's platform. And it is the platforms (which are easy enough to find and read) that I am interested in, not yet another spat about the power plants.
As for the PC platform, I admit that after reading the phrase "reckless overspending", which is patently false as our program spending per capita is the lowest in the country, I am not tempted to give it any credibility.