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162 North Queen Street (SmartCentre, ?s, ?)

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Northern Light

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The Lobbyist Registry tells us Smart Centre is at it again, looking at intensifying and redeveloping another retail site.

But this one strikes me as a reach.

Its adjacent to the 427 and has no nearby residential precedent for what would be an an employment lands conversion.

Aerial Pic:

1646943165274.png


Site Size: a Whopping ~4.3ha/10.7 acres * (The triangle parcel to the south of the hydro corridor appears to also be Smart Centre, and marketed as part of this plaza, though it is a distinct parcel and differently addressed)
It could add a further 1.1ha/2.7 acres to the site.

Aside from the conversion request challenge, the site has a highway on one side, a high voltage hydro corridor along its southern flank, an CP's mainline along its northern flank.
I see marketing hurdles.

Streetview:

1646943495836.png
 
Huge property that could develope at least 4 towers in the future ! As seen in the photo up above.
 
It could... but why??
We're probably a good 20 years out from when this site would need to come into play. Until the redevelopment of Sherway Gardens and properties immediately north of it are in full swing, there's nothing at all to draw people here.

This is also a prime location for employment uses that won't be as bothered by highway and diesel train traffic, and could work well as a logistics centre if this is not one already.
 
north-of-anything said:
It could... but why??
We're probably a good 20 years out from when this site would need to come into play. Until the redevelopment of Sherway Gardens and properties immediately north of it are in full swing, there's nothing at all to draw people here.

This is also a prime location for employment uses that won't be as bothered by highway and diesel train traffic, and could work well as a logistics centre if this is not one already.
Click to expand...
It’s a Marshall’s and a home sense. I’m pretty sure those jobs could be anywhere. How about in the base of a condo.
 
sixrings said:
It’s a Marshall’s and a home sense. I’m pretty sure those jobs could be anywhere. How about in the base of a condo.
Click to expand...

A condo, beside a high voltage hydro corridor, a main line railway, a major highway, in an area w/no other residential, mediocre transit, that lacks basic residential services nearby?

I don't think the argument is that the current use is compelling.

It's that this isn't a great spot for residential conversion, and the City does require employment lands (the way that term was meant), meaning factories/light industrial, warehousing/logistics, etc etc.

This seems a more apt spot for those uses, and barring that, the existing ones. Introducing residential here would not only require lots of investment by the developer, but also by the City.
 
Northern Light said:
A condo, beside a high voltage hydro corridor, a main line railway, a major highway, in an area w/no other residential, mediocre transit, that lacks basic residential services nearby?

I don't think the argument is that the current use is compelling.

It's that this isn't a great spot for residential conversion, and the City does require employment lands (the way that term was meant), meaning factories/light industrial, warehousing/logistics, etc etc.

This seems a more apt spot for those uses, and barring that, the existing ones. Introducing residential here would not only require lots of investment by the developer, but also by the City.
Click to expand...
It’s only a matter of time until this area is residential. All of the major shopping malls are seeing massive transformation. so I don’t see the difference between now and twenty years. Twenty years of a Marshall’s or a homesense isn’t going to help the city grow.
 
Undead said:
The market is so out of line that anything will sell anywhere.
Click to expand...
I agree, I mean if we're building condo villages right by toxic cesspool highway interchanges such the QEW-427-Gardiner interchange (which is equally bad, if not worse from an infrastructure accommodation perspective), then this area would have no problems. They would sell it's proximity to Sherway and it would probably sell out like hotcakes.

Not to say I agree that this site should be converted, because it shouldnt and there's no way transit would accommodate the increased density.
 
Amare said:
I agree, I mean if we're building condo villages right by toxic cesspool highway interchanges such the QEW-427-Gardiner interchange (which is equally bad, if not worse from an infrastructure accommodation perspective), then this area would have no problems. They would sell it's proximity to Sherway and it would probably sell out like hotcakes.

Not to say I agree that this site should be converted, because it shouldnt and there's no way transit would accommodate the increased density.
Click to expand...
Plenty of areas in the city that transit (Humber bay shores is just one example) will not accommodate increased density. We would almost stop building everywhere but the downtown core if that was our standards because the subways are over flowing and the go trains are standing room only. By the way this has the potential to be close to a bloor west subway extension which I’m sure people on this thread are aware of.
 
And I have the potential to afford a condo that gets built here. Doesn't mean I should count on it.

It would make more sense to bring the Marshall's and Penningtons and other retail into the podiums proposed along The Queensway. If we're talking about land served by transit that can accommodate more density, the old Honeydale Mall lands are less than a kilometer away, which is roughly the same distance from the Kipling station - which already exists - as this property would be from a theoretical Sherway Gardens station. There's no hope of any community amenities coming into existence out here, either. We need better justification for employment land conversion than "the units will sell" - save that for the yellow belt lands around Bloor, Eglinton, Finch West, Marlee, etc. etc.
 
north-of-anything said:
And I have the potential to afford a condo that gets built here. Doesn't mean I should count on it.

It would make more sense to bring the Marshall's and Penningtons and other retail into the podiums proposed along The Queensway. If we're talking about land served by transit that can accommodate more density, the old Honeydale Mall lands are less than a kilometer away, which is roughly the same distance from the Kipling station - which already exists - as this property would be from a theoretical Sherway Gardens station. There's no hope of any community amenities coming into existence out here, either. We need better justification for employment land conversion than "the units will sell" - save that for the yellow belt lands around Bloor, Eglinton, Finch West, Marlee, etc. etc.
Click to expand...
I’m guessing you’re suggesting we should limit development to transit areas until those areas are all built up. Part of the problem as I see it is that these huge parking lots have no NIMBYs stopping huge developments from happening making such areas more desirable to developers. This is also politicians fault for almost always siding with NIMBYs under the guise of things like traffic concerns. So we have 17 floor buildings being built at eglinton and Bathurst meanwhile these areas will likely see 30+ floor condos. You can’t have it both ways. We need housing but then say we need it along transit lines. But then allow barely more than mid rises there to appease NIMBYs
 
The Sherway Area Plan foresees the big box centre directly south of this across North Queen as eventually going mixed use with condos aplenty, and that area would have to come with parks, schools, and other services… and the eventuality of the Bloor Danforth West Extension is out there somewhere, with a potentially short bus ride or healthy walk from here to West Mall/Sherway station.

Meanwhile, a proposal to redevelop the Honeydale Mall site up on Dundas with condos, etc., was advanced a decade ago, but has languished because of no movement on the subway extension.

I don't see anything wrong with submitting this proposal, but there's a good chance that there will be a requirement to retain as much space for retail as it currently provides (to retain the jobs) and that anything approved here could take quite a while to materialize because of potentially more attractive properties available closer to Sherway first.

When and if this does eventually go forward, if the Bloor Danforth Extension isn't back on the table and maybe even being worked on by then, this will be another reason to pursue it more vigorously.

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