alklay
Senior Member
I believe that the people who are lined up, are lined up for the general opening, and not VIP sales.
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Mike in TO
Senior Member
^ Some of the VIP sales events have already taken place.
b13
New Member
^ not to be rude but maybe he likes the project and would like to live in this building and enjoy the amenities the location has to offer. and i don't think its right for you to be telling him he's wasting his money in this project because maybe he is not wasting his money and maybe this is his future home. Just because you don't believe in this project doesn't mean others do.
yyzer
Senior Member
I think whoever told you that was pulling your leg.....
I think that this project will tell us if the condo boom is going to continue...it has come on the market at an interesting time, and it is not cheap....but it sounds like so far, at least, it's a winner.
Location has to be a solid '10'.
tkip
Active Member
Negative comments.....
I have to get my 2 cents worth in regarding yet another bashing by Vultur.
I don't get why Vultur makes it a point to bash every project out there and those who are interested in buying into these projects. Exactly why does he come this forum anyway if he's so anti-condo/developent? It doesn't make any sense.
And what's really ironic is that while he's announcing that these projects are a waste of time and will not be successful, the projects just keep on selling. You would think by now that with the all evidence piling up to the upper atmosphere he would have eaten his words and backed off.
But noooooooooooo. Not sure what his problem is.
I have to get my 2 cents worth in regarding yet another bashing by Vultur.
I don't get why Vultur makes it a point to bash every project out there and those who are interested in buying into these projects. Exactly why does he come this forum anyway if he's so anti-condo/developent? It doesn't make any sense.
And what's really ironic is that while he's announcing that these projects are a waste of time and will not be successful, the projects just keep on selling. You would think by now that with the all evidence piling up to the upper atmosphere he would have eaten his words and backed off.
But noooooooooooo. Not sure what his problem is.
Blixtein
Active Member
I think whoever told you that was pulling your leg.....
I think that this project will tell us if the condo boom is going to continue...it has come on the market at an interesting time, and it is not cheap....but it sounds like so far, at least, it's a winner.
Location has to be a solid '10'.
The best corner in the world.
re: Vultur - maybe he's just a contrarian indicator. The more he's negative the better these projects sell. When he starts praising the condo market it's a sure sign it's about to implode.
junctionist
Senior Member
Although from his perspective if the market deserved praise it would be because of the lack of speculating investors. If I were to take what he's saying about extremely elevated price levels due to speculation as fact, it would be true that the current market would implode if it deserved his praise.
Mike in TO
Senior Member
The price levels are not simply the result of high demand from speculators. The input costs with respect to construction materials (which are not locally set, but due to wider supply and demand across North America) have increased significantly the past couple of years - especially cement & copper. Land costs - which are impacted by both supply, demand and government regulation/intervention into the market have increased significantly the last couple of years and would have done so speculation or not - the greenbelt, Places to Grow and various other municipal and provincial regulations have nothing to do with speculation, but contribute significantly to the costs of housing in the region. Taxes are also a significant component to the price structure.
Speculation/investment has had virtually zero impact on the above factors.
Speculation/investment has had virtually zero impact on the above factors.
Urbanmii
New Member
For all those interested.. The price is in the 700 per sq ft range and most small units do not have the opportunity to purchase parking. Parking is 45k while locker is 5k
asiancolossus
Active Member
That is interesting, reading a recent Globe and Mail article it seems that the new wave "luxury condos" are now running 1000 to 1500 per square foot and that is still considered "cheap" compared to New York and London...
H
Hydrogen
Guest
It's cheap because we are neither New York or London. The question is whether it is too expensive for Toronto.
asiancolossus
Active Member
Thanks for the numbers, any idea of how the street has been receiving 1BE vs say Trump and Ritz? It certainly does not have the name behind it, perhaps that is why it is cheaper? What are people saying?
Waterloo_Guy
Active Member
Sorry, but Mike is right. Copper, cement, and other construction materials have prices set by the same market mechanism that consumers are subject to. These material prices determine construction costs, which determine the prices consumers pay. When lumber goes up in price, so do new homes.
Companies purchase their materials just as the final consumer purchases the goods produced.
Observer Walt
Senior Member
Vultur, I'm sorry, but you are the one who is "ignorant". Your ongoing negative tone is one thing, but your most recent comment above demonstrates that you actually know little about the economics of the real estate market. Mike in TO seems to me, based on a number of his comments, to be knowledgeable about the market and you might want to consider what he actually said in his post.
Construction costs for a high rise residential building would be, at minimum, $200 per square foot of floor space in downtown Toronto, and probably higher depending on the particular challenges of the space, including, in this case, the fact that this property is located almost directly above the subway. This building is anticipated to be a luxury project and I would guess that the cost would be substantially higher accordingly. Soft costs, as you point out, would be additional. You don't mention marketing costs, which will be significant, or demolition costs.
As for land cost, you say "$50 per square foot", and I am guessing that you mean per square foot of land area. If so, you are low by a factor of many times. The "1 Bloor" site was purchased by Bazis at a rate of $1,550 per square foot (the Kolter property, not including a small additional area purchased separately). That is a matter of public record. This is a high rate, but that reflects the location. Land sales in the downtown area during 2006 and 2007, for land which is or can be zoned for high rise apartment development, are ranging from $225 per square foot, at the very bottom of the range (east of Yonge and south of Dundas), up to twice that and more. To cite a few examples: 45 Bay Street was sold quite recently at $406 per square foot. The southeast corner of King and Spadina sold recently at $463 per square foot. The Shangri-La site sold at $671 per square foot. 815 Church Street, just a couple of blocks north of Yonge and Bloor, sold at $414 per square foot of site area, and that was almost exactly two years ago. Safe to say that it would be higher now.
I could cite others but you hopefully get my point.
On the off chance that you meant "price per square foot of buildable floor area", which is actually a more meaningful measure, you might be a bit more in line but still low by at least 100% for anything in the central area, what you call a "top location". I don't know the final floor area of 1 Bloor East but I would have no hesitation saying that Bazis would have paid well above $50 per buildable square foot.
I have no idea at all how you are projecting a "233% profit margin". That would be a complex calculation, requiring much more information than I have, or you have I'm sure.
Vultur, you obviously are dead against this project. That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But remarks calling others ignorant reflect back on you, and your characterization of Bazis as "phonies" etc. isn't backed by any evidence that I have seen so far. And before you start throwing numbers around, try to check at least a few of them.
Construction costs for a high rise residential building would be, at minimum, $200 per square foot of floor space in downtown Toronto, and probably higher depending on the particular challenges of the space, including, in this case, the fact that this property is located almost directly above the subway. This building is anticipated to be a luxury project and I would guess that the cost would be substantially higher accordingly. Soft costs, as you point out, would be additional. You don't mention marketing costs, which will be significant, or demolition costs.
As for land cost, you say "$50 per square foot", and I am guessing that you mean per square foot of land area. If so, you are low by a factor of many times. The "1 Bloor" site was purchased by Bazis at a rate of $1,550 per square foot (the Kolter property, not including a small additional area purchased separately). That is a matter of public record. This is a high rate, but that reflects the location. Land sales in the downtown area during 2006 and 2007, for land which is or can be zoned for high rise apartment development, are ranging from $225 per square foot, at the very bottom of the range (east of Yonge and south of Dundas), up to twice that and more. To cite a few examples: 45 Bay Street was sold quite recently at $406 per square foot. The southeast corner of King and Spadina sold recently at $463 per square foot. The Shangri-La site sold at $671 per square foot. 815 Church Street, just a couple of blocks north of Yonge and Bloor, sold at $414 per square foot of site area, and that was almost exactly two years ago. Safe to say that it would be higher now.
I could cite others but you hopefully get my point.
On the off chance that you meant "price per square foot of buildable floor area", which is actually a more meaningful measure, you might be a bit more in line but still low by at least 100% for anything in the central area, what you call a "top location". I don't know the final floor area of 1 Bloor East but I would have no hesitation saying that Bazis would have paid well above $50 per buildable square foot.
I have no idea at all how you are projecting a "233% profit margin". That would be a complex calculation, requiring much more information than I have, or you have I'm sure.
Vultur, you obviously are dead against this project. That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But remarks calling others ignorant reflect back on you, and your characterization of Bazis as "phonies" etc. isn't backed by any evidence that I have seen so far. And before you start throwing numbers around, try to check at least a few of them.
alklay
Senior Member
Vultur never, ever, ever has any facts to back up the name calling and groundless accusations. Observer Walt, your informed post was welcomed.
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