Ïce Condos (Lanterra Developments, Cadillac Fairview) - Real Estate -

jackiechandc said:
I agree that prices aren't much cheaper for new builds, but the size of the units are much smaller, even compared to condos built less then 5 years ago. You also have to understand that the units for Ice that are south facing are the bigger units that costs about $400-$500K not the smaller ones.
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yea, I was a bit upset when I found out they shrunk the size of the units. Dramen was suppose to be 640sq ft but when sale started, the plan turned to 618 sq ft. Well, still not a big issue since I'm buying a brand name condo but the unit was hard to find. It's crazy all the units are sold out except 2-3 in the lower floors and ones not for sale yet from 47-55.

jackiechandc said:
I think the main people that will be surprised are the investors that bought it to flip in a couple of years. They are the ones that are going to be feeling the condo correction if it occurs, not the end user, who are more interested in living in the area. I bought a unit at Bay and College (Murano), but paid a low enough price ($380/sf) to rent it out and recoup my costs if I can't sell it. With the current condo prices of $500-$600/sf it is impossible to have a positive cash flow if you can't sell and have to become a landlord to rent it out.
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It depends on if the investor has a lot of money or property on hand. If the investor has been playing in the market for awhile, chances are they already own several apartments which have already appreciated and they could easily sell some off to take profit and pay for the unit at ice. If they are overseas investors, chances are they have the money. If it's new investors hoping to flip, I think they would get scared off by the prices, but you never now. Someone might be daring enough.

How come you bought Murano and not MLS? I think MLS cost around $450/sq ft when it was sold. The location and facilities seems great and worth the premium from $380. I regret not knowing about it earlier or else I would have bought a unit there. How many condos out there provide you with a residence VIP box to watch games? :)
 
Would love to have bought MLS and if it becomes available grab it in a second! I bought the Murano unit with two of my close friends when it became available earlier this year. The person who sold it was trying to unload it before occupancy next year, so sold it way below market value. We were able to grab a 1+1, 620sf, 27th floor unit for $254K in March of this year. The building and location is wonderful enough to live there if I wanted to in the future. I just started to dabble in real estate recently, but the more I research, the more I realized that at today's prices that the return on investment is not worth buying a lot of the new builds. Hopefully we can find other deals like this in the future as many of the investors are just regular folks who have bought a couple of condos so some will be strapped for cash when occupancy approaches. The problem is trying to find these people:)
 
That's a pretty good price. Did it come with parking and locker? I think it would be hard to find those people cuz they would get snatched up in a second. I bought mine a bit cheaper but it was pre-construction back in 2003 at cityplace. It cost around $300/sq ft at the time on 29th floor (real floor 25). I don't flip condos but they're great to live in and move around so as to get a different view every few years.
 
Unfortunately no, it didn't come with parking and locker. I'm trying to at least get the locker, as for my parking is no big issue at that location.
The only way we got that one, was that my uncle's a real estate agent and has a lot of clients who are flippers. A lot of them need to unload to invest in other units, so are willing to sell cheap to get their money back. Mind you the person we bought our unit from, still made $25K profit on a $20K orginal investment (100% plus ROI in 2 years), so they did well for themselves. Wish I had more money to buy more, but I'm just an average joe not big time investor:)
 
I somehow don't really like the yonge & college area so much. I was at a mall once and somehow felt it had too many kids and busy. The harbourfront area seems much better. Hey if you find extra units of those people selling off MLS at a steep discount let me know too :D
 
Ice Condos

Hi,

Im a new investor in to Condos. I am interested in purchasing at the ICE. I have a few questions. Im looking at a unit on the 31 floor facing west in the Phase 1 55 storey Bldg with a closing in late 2013.

1 Bedroom plus study 522 Sq Ft

the price works out to $610.00 a SQ FT. Note: im 23 yrs old and this would be my first investment.

1. When buying a pre-con is there a way to negotiate the price down.

2. what rate of property tax is fair to assume in 5 years at that location.

3. I would assume about 60 - 75% would be investors like myself looking to turn a profit from all this. So unloading this condo will take some time during which i would have to hold it, will i be able to rent out the unit and break even. If not how do you pros calculate within reason what the additional carrying costs would be after the rental income.

4. I make a decent income but im in a volatile business (import/export) and in the current economic times its very hard to see the future.

5. Also I would like to calculate my monthly mortgage payment should i hold that unit what is a fair rate of interest to assume 5 yrs from now when the closing time comes.

thanks
Jani
 
janisell said:
Hi,

Im a new investor in to Condos. I am interested in purchasing at the ICE. I have a few questions. Im looking at a unit on the 31 floor facing west in the Phase 1 55 storey Bldg with a closing in late 2013.

1 Bedroom plus study 522 Sq Ft

the price works out to $610.00 a SQ FT. Note: im 23 yrs old and this would be my first investment.

1. When buying a pre-con is there a way to negotiate the price down.

2. what rate of property tax is fair to assume in 5 years at that location.

3. I would assume about 60 - 75% would be investors like myself looking to turn a profit from all this. So unloading this condo will take some time during which i would have to hold it, will i be able to rent out the unit and break even. If not how do you pros calculate within reason what the additional carrying costs would be after the rental income.

4. I make a decent income but im in a volatile business (import/export) and in the current economic times its very hard to see the future.

5. Also I would like to calculate my monthly mortgage payment should i hold that unit what is a fair rate of interest to assume 5 yrs from now when the closing time comes.

thanks
Jani
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Do you really want to spend $320K for a 500 sq ft box that won't be ready for at least 5 years, especially given the current economic forecast? I'd be very concerned about the volume of new condos that are going up, realistically it just isn't sustainable using condos as investment vehicles.

Anyway I'll try to answer your q's
1- usually not, although smart ppl will team up with an agent and split the commission for pre-con
2- ~1.25% of the value
3- You should make 10% of the value of the condo annually for renting to make sense. Calculate your total monthly mortgage/taxe/condo fee costs and then decide if you could realistically rent at a profit.
5- You'll need a psychic, but it's safe to assume they will be higher than what they are now
 
janisell said:
Hi,

Im a new investor in to Condos. I am interested in purchasing at the ICE. I have a few questions. Im looking at a unit on the 31 floor facing west in the Phase 1 55 storey Bldg with a closing in late 2013.

1 Bedroom plus study 522 Sq Ft

the price works out to $610.00 a SQ FT. Note: im 23 yrs old and this would be my first investment.

1. When buying a pre-con is there a way to negotiate the price down.

2. what rate of property tax is fair to assume in 5 years at that location.

3. I would assume about 60 - 75% would be investors like myself looking to turn a profit from all this. So unloading this condo will take some time during which i would have to hold it, will i be able to rent out the unit and break even. If not how do you pros calculate within reason what the additional carrying costs would be after the rental income.

4. I make a decent income but im in a volatile business (import/export) and in the current economic times its very hard to see the future.

5. Also I would like to calculate my monthly mortgage payment should i hold that unit what is a fair rate of interest to assume 5 yrs from now when the closing time comes.

thanks
Jani
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Why are you going to pay $610 per sq ft when you can get a beautiful unit in downtown with a much better location than ICE for $500 sq ft? does it make sense to you?. Just an example, you are paying $610X522=$318.420. With the same money you can buy right now 641 sq ft at 550 Wellington or 580 sq ft with parking at Hudson Condos
 
I have to agree the prices are pretty inflated for Ice but I don't see the price coming down after it's built because the value the investor/owner purchased it for, selling it any lower would be a loss. It's about 20% inflated I think compared to rest of prices currently, but by the time it's finished building I guess 2014 or 2015 probably (I can't imagine any project finishing on time). The prices would probably be worth that much or more by then. If you don't have the money and need time to accumulate then it's not a bad investment. If you need a place to live, you might as well buy one on resale in the market. It's cheaper. They only good thing about buying now is so you don't have to pay the full amount and mortgage and you might a better pick of some units. Frankly I think the builder name sells for itself. It's a brand name you buy besides the location (lake view, near rogers, CN Tower, ACC). Like the difference between buying a new Porsche or are regular used car.
 
Solaris,
Thanks for the price update. Hmmm.. actually the price has gone up less then I've calculated earlier. Closer to 2% instead of the 5-8% that I calculated earlier.

Jani,
Ice will be an excellent place if you are purchasing to live as the location and facilities are fantastic. However, you will not be able to recoup your costs in rent to cover your mortgage payment, taxes, maintenance fees etc...
Currently 1 bedroom condos rent for about $1500 or so in the area so you will be at a negative cash flow, unless of course you put a huge downpayment (ie. 50%) to offset the interest/principal payments.
Remember, when you flip you have to also pay realtor commissions, capital gains taxes..etc..

There is no way the market is going to crash like the US and parts of Europe, but we are long overdue for a correction. Calgary and Edmonton and even Vancouver is already experiencing a correction right now.

Bottom line is as in any investment, take your time and research everything before you jump in. HTH.
 
ok here are my calculations:

320K for 522 SQ 1 BED + STUDY 31/FLOOR
NO PARKING NO LOCKER

Downpayment 79475.00
First yr 30 90 180 365 = $63580.00

At this point im done till the closing.

5th year $15895.00 on Closing

Mortgage $238,500 @ 6.2% 21 years = 1554/mo
+ Mantainance: $261.00/mo
+ Property Tax 1.25% $332

Current interest rate is 5.25% and im escalating to 6.2% is that fair assumtion?

property tax are 1% now im escalating that to 1.25% is that fair

total monthly carrying cost: $2147.00

Rental currently is $1500 for 1 bed in that location so lets say for safe siding its the same if i rent it out my neg cash flow is $650.00/mo.

currently rate of increase is about 6% - 7% so at 5% i would be reselling that condo after 6 years for 410 - 415K.

Do you think theres room in the market for this kind of prices. $790.00 SQ FT.

Location is one of the best, design is outstanding (green roof) facillities and ammenities are wonderful. Size not so good, no parking no locker. So dad will have to pick me up from the Go station when i want some of mamas home made cookies lol!!!

is a tough decision. Again please tell me if im on the right track with my calcs or have overlooked any important factors.
 
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