Yonge Street Revitalization (Downtown Yonge BIA/City of Toronto)

[ssiguy2]

Can we get off the music crap and get back to Yonge!

Yonge will never be the circus it once was, just the nature of the beast. Bars/dance clubs are not near as popular as they once were and people have more options about where, with whom, how, and when to socialize. Yonge, like many main drags, use to also be very seedy with porn shop, movie theatres etc but that is no more as porn which was once a daring thing to do is now just a click away.

Yonge could, however, get it's centre of attention reputation back if it was to become pedestrian friendly and currently it is horridly unfriendly. Yonge only claim to fame right now is that it is the only main street in the whole city where you can't sit outside and have a coffee little alone a meal.

 

[RippedLikeStinson]

Yonge could, however, get it's centre of attention reputation back if it was to become pedestrian friendly and currently it is horridly unfriendly. Yonge only claim to fame right now is that it is the only main street in the whole city where you can't sit outside and have a coffee little alone a meal.

Well then the only solution is to demolish all those run down shacks (as Automation Gallery would say), and replace them with outdoor patios. That would probably be a Rob Fordesque way to create more public space. After all, "we have enough heritage". He'd probably pee on St. Lawrence Hall if no one was around to witness it.

 

[freshcutgrass]

It can be hard to find true talent when you’re staring at the lights. But it’s there. It’s always been there.

In the case of great female R&B vocalists you are correct...there's never been a shortage those. Other genres of music have not been so lucky. And like I've said before, it's do to a lot of little details and circumstances that have added up over the years.

I personally don't listen to a lot of contemporary mainstream pop music because other genres have managed to catch my interest. I'm no longer a "youth", so I no longer have a youthful hipster attitude towards music (I don't just listen to whatever happens to be the cool band of the month). I'm also an audiophile, so naturally I am influenced by recording quality.

not everyone has to have a technically masterful voice in order to make it big and reach the people.

Technical ability is nice, but obviously many of the catchiest tunes aren't the result of any sort of virtuosity. The combination of the two used to be more common...like...in the 70's. he he

I never understood what people saw in The Ramones or Sex Pistols that was so captivating

Like any fad, it isn't supposed to appeal to everyone. But the punk movement was very diversified sound-wise in the beginning...Ramones were totally different than the Sex Pistols. Elvis Costello, Blondie, Talking Heads et al were considered punk as well. Punk quickly fizzled out and became post-punk/new wave. The MTV factor kicked in and had a big effect. Image was always important, but in the pre-MTV you had to cultivate that by touring and doing it live on stage. The over-produced videos would be almost impossible to replicate live.

That said, London Calling is a very elegantly done punk anthem. It's just a great, great tune.

While the British punk bands can claim major social upheaval was the catalyst for their bands, you certainly can't say that of Toronto, as late 70's Toronto was about the most politically docile and financially prosperous time we have ever had. Yet Toronto was one of the three global capitals of punk, and had some of the most brutally extreme hardcore punk bands. The remnants of these punk fans are the losers sitting on Queen St with two dogs panhandling.

 

[freshcutgrass]

The only really free nations are the ones that embraced Christianity.

Well technically, it's the ones that rejected christianity. (separation of church and state)

 

[freshcutgrass]

Can we get off the music crap and get back to Yonge!

Yonge St is rock n roll

 

[RippedLikeStinson]

Well technically, it's the ones that rejected christianity. (separation of church and state)

Separation of church and state was coined by Thomas Jefferson. Its original meaning has been spun. Its real context had to do with man's right to express his faith without government interference.
Basically all our laws and culture has been shaped by judeo-christian beliefs. Anyway, back to the Yonge St/music discussion.

 

[Lenser]

Nicki Minaj is just one example of many, many horrible artists that are lionized by the hordes of airhead, cultural zombies today. The problem is, for most young people, the likes of her is what constitutes as real music, and being exposed to a band like Canned Heat would be a totally alien experience. Few people born post 1990 are well versed in music that was created before their conception, and as we get further away from the existence of great bands like Zeppelin, CCR, etc. they'll become even more obscure. Zeppelin is still appreciated today as their original fan base has passed their music along to their children. But will they still be popular in 50-100 years? The great rock bands from the 60s and 70s might be perceived the way classical musicians are today. How many people still listen to Beethoven: Unplugged in Berlin, for example?

The problem is that you're talking about "real music" as if it's a concrete, quantifiable, measurable thing. It's not. You have your musical heroes; today's generation have theirs. You can claim that your heroes are better, but you might as well howl at the moon for all that it matters. I think it's a wash, personally. But I'm glad to hear that you're happy in other realms.

As for what happens down the road to all these stars from the 60s, 70s, 80s and beyond, as to whether or not the general public will revere them, or even remember them... well, I'm not going to worry about it. I'll be taking the big dirt nap but I'm quite certain music will go on making a difference in billions of lives. It's beyond silly to say that we're rushing downhill in this regard.

By the way, neither do Dylan nor Young have "horrible" voices. They're simply imperfect and all too human, which helps make them accessible. Cold Irons Bound is one of my favourite late Dylan songs and I imagine it would be sacriliege to hear anyone else sing those gritty, memorable lines.

I used to think Lennon was the most interesting Beatle. He had wisdom and a certain acid gravitas. Now, on a purely musical level, I think it was Paul. His bass playing and ear for melody is killer. As for CCR, I understand why they're revered. They did rock in an honest, meat & potatoes way and they took no prisoners. Not a bad track record, if you ask me.

And to come back to your question, no, I can't give you a single band or album that ranks above all. My brain isn't wired that way, so the question feels inherently reductivist, even absurdly unfair. I consider myself a fan of music in all its glorious width and breadth. The longer I live the more I appreciate various streams of it - they all empty out into the same ocean. Thanks to my parents and a couple of older siblings I began with Burl Ives, Burt Bacharach, Herman's Hermits, The Dave Clark Five, The Beatles, The Stones and Dylan and The Monkees, then went into Sabbath and Zeppelin and prog rock (Gentle Giant, Arthur Brown, Genesis, Nektar), early German electronic pioneers (Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream) and then punk, then new wave and Eno and Devo and The Pretenders and Gang of Four and Joy Division and a bunch of local Toronto Queen Street scenesters, plus reggae and ska (Marley, early UB40, Black Uhuru, Jackie Mitto, The Specials, The English Beat) - and that's just taking us into the early 80s. Nowadays I'm also into jazz, African, ambient, electronica, soul, folk, even some country! May that universe continue to expand, lest I grow bored and start taking it all for granted.

 

[Lenser]

To take it back to the topic of this thread, I believe one of the best things you could do for the renewed health and vitality of Yonge would be to make it a pedestrian-only mall from, say, Bloor all the way down to Queen. I think that would really do wonders for the street.

 

[MisterF]

Jezuz...why don't you just accept the simple fact that you misread it, rather than make up that rambling pathetic excuse. Something to keep in mind...not all posts have to do with "you" and some posts can have more than one theme (1977 is a running theme in my posts).

Usually when you quote someone and write something underneath, it's considered a reply to that person. Just a friendly tip

You could pick any band at all, and there will be those who think they are the greatest rock band in history. Maybe even...Arcade Fire!! ha ha They may be influenced by Zeppelin (what prog-metal bands aren't), but very few people would put Tool in the same league under any categories...albums, songs, influence, musicianship, popularity/sales.

Well Tool was just an example from the web page I linked earlier. That being said, they're absolutely in the same league as Zeppelin in musicianship, songwriting, and albums (sales and popularity are irrelevant, otherwise we'd be talking about Bieber). Led Zeppelin were hugely influential, but they weren't untouchable rock gods. Their talents can be matched. In any case it's a strange comparison because they're so different from each other; I love both for completely different reasons. They make me feel different things. When you're talking about that level of talent, to argue that one is clearly better than the other is pointless.

I heard Trump say that he maintains that haircut because he has been very successful with it; or something to that extent. I don't think rock stars are really anti-establishment; they're just immature and don't want to accept that they age. Tommy Lee still has the mentality of a 12 year old.

Not every rock star is like this, and it's definitely something that's much less common after 1990. Dave Grohl is a big bearded teddy bear and Josh Homme looks like someone you'd meet at your kid's soccer game. The guys from Japandroids would disappear into any crowd on Yonge Street (and with that we're back on topic!).

 

[freshcutgrass]

Ozzy was never a particularly riveting vocalist, especially compared to Robert Plant or Steve Tyler.

....or his replacement. Heaven & Hell is my favourite Sabbath album. Watch the live Wacken concert from 2009 on youtube...there's Dio, 66 years old and dying of cancer, and still sounding pretty awesome.

Separation of church and state was coined by Thomas Jefferson. Its original meaning has been spun.

Jefferson thought the bible was BS (as did pretty much all of the founding fathers). And the whole slavery bit kinda eats away at that "freedom" concept wouldn't you say? I know...and I hate being the killjoy.

Canada has a lot of freedoms due to the modern bit of legislature in 1982 called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. And it exists in spite of so-called judeo-christian beliefs.

I believe one of the best things you could do for the renewed health and vitality of Yonge would be to make it a pedestrian-only mall from, say, Bloor all the way down to Queen. I think that would really do wonders for the street.

That could be our first act of the post-Ford era.

The War On Cars....BACK ON SUCKERS!!!

 

[RippedLikeStinson]

Usually when you quote someone and write something underneath, it's considered a reply to that person. Just a friendly tip


Well Tool was just an example from the web page I linked earlier. That being said, they're absolutely in the same league as Zeppelin in musicianship, songwriting, and albums (sales and popularity are irrelevant, otherwise we'd be talking about Bieber). Led Zeppelin were hugely influential, but they weren't untouchable rock gods. Their talents can be matched. In any case it's a strange comparison because they're so different from each other; I love both for completely different reasons. They make me feel different things. When you're talking about that level of talent, to argue that one is clearly better than the other is pointless.


Not every rock star is like this, and it's definitely something that's much less common after 1990. Dave Grohl is a big bearded teddy bear and Josh Homme looks like someone you'd meet at your kid's soccer game. The guys from Japandroids would disappear into any crowd on Yonge Street (and with that we're back on topic!).

Let's not get carried away with the Tool and Zeppelin comparison. Does Tool write anything besides abstract rock songs? Zeppelin's catalogue is as diverse as it gets. It's hard to believe that the same band wrote songs like That's The Way and The Wanton Song. Tool's version of No Quarter is also pretty bad, in my opinion. Maynard James Keenan is probably the most overrated vocalist of all time. He is so monotone. Zeppelin's chemistry is unmatched. Each band member is arguably the greatest that ever existed, in their respective roles.
What a ballsy decision it was to write Led Zeppelin III, after the heavy hitting first two albums. Their music was always changing and impossible to pigeonhole. That's the mark of a truly creative and daring band.

Dave Grohl seems like a nice guy. John Homme is a pretty foul mouthed person -- so yes, exactly the type you'd expect at a kid's soccer game. The times I've listened to him speak, he sounded like a really pissed off guy. Grohl, though pretty foul at times too, still comes across as a genuinely positive person. Japandroids?

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Can we get off the music crap and get back to Yonge!

Yonge will never be the circus it once was, just the nature of the beast. Bars/dance clubs are not near as popular as they once were and people have more options about where, with whom, how, and when to socialize. Yonge, like many main drags, use to also be very seedy with porn shop, movie theatres etc but that is no more as porn which was once a daring thing to do is now just a click away.

Yonge could, however, get it's centre of attention reputation back if it was to become pedestrian friendly and currently it is horridly unfriendly. Yonge only claim to fame right now is that it is the only main street in the whole city where you can't sit outside and have a coffee little alone a meal.

A few movie theatres used to be part of the "seedy" culture on downtown Yonge Street, but a great many more helped contribute to the culture and vibrancy of Yonge St. until the last one was unceremoniously knocked down in 2003.

There are patios and similar setups on downtown Yonge to sit and enjoy coffee or a meal, your not looking. There are a few more that are not currently being used, plus there's Dundas Square. As independent retail continues to fail, there could be - and likely will be many more in the future.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Usually when you quote someone and write something underneath, it's considered a reply to that person. Just a friendly tip

OM effing G!!

Go back and look at it. I reply to your quote. Then about 6 lines down comes the "more 1977 teasers", which is continuation of the "1977 teasers" started in a previous post. Between that and the title of the teasers, it's pretty clear. Since I've already explained that to you once and you still want to argue about it, I'm going to have to insist you sit at the kiddy table from now on. Stick that in your smug little emoticon face.

they're absolutely in the same league as Zeppelin in musicianship, songwriting, and albums

Typing it doesn't make it so. I can't imagine anybody agreeing with you. Find me anyone who would list Tool members even remotely close to Zep members...lead guitarists, bassists. drummers, front men. Same with albums. I can't believe I'm even entertaining such an absurd argument.

Led Zeppelin were hugely influential, but they weren't untouchable rock gods.

I think the whole point is...they kinda are. he he


(((((((((((((((((((((((ATTENTION MisterF EVERYTHING FROM HERE DOWN IS NOT A RESPONSE TO THAT QUOTE))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))


<<now must think of something on topic to say >>

Yonge St still maintains it's distinction of being the place where we decide to spontaneously celebrate things. Wasn't the last time when Canada won a gold medal? Do we still care enough to do it again on Sunday if we win it again?

Oh...music and Yonge Street.

I was there in 1991 when Alice Cooper did an impromptu concert on the roof of HMV. It shut down Yonge pretty quick. There was a bit of trouble, as there was no permit. I remember Alice yelling that you could only get away with that in two cities...Detroit and Toronto.

I was also there for the free 1999 Chilli Peppers concert on Yonge in front of HMV (had a permit and closed the street this time)

I was also there for the free REM concert at Yonge & Dundas in 2001.

 

[RippedLikeStinson]

....or his replacement. Heaven & Hell is my favourite Sabbath album. Watch the live Wacken concert from 2009 on youtube...there's Dio, 66 years old and dying of cancer, and still sounding pretty awesome.




Jefferson thought the bible was BS (as did pretty much all of the founding fathers). And the whole slavery bit kinda eats away at that "freedom" concept wouldn't you say? I know...and I hate being the killjoy.

Canada has a lot of freedoms due to the modern bit of legislature in 1982 called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. And it exists in spite of so-called judeo-christian beliefs.




That could be our first act of the post-Ford era.

The War On Cars....BACK ON SUCKERS!!!

Though one could argue that the teachings of Christ is what set the slaves free. Lincoln, though not necessarily a Christian, was very fond of the bible and would often quote it. And he was the one that freed blacks. Jesus wasn't a proponent of slavery. He spent most of his time with those that rest of society shunned (gays, prostitutes, thieves, etc.) He believed that all of us are equal, regardless of our beliefs. Personal freedom is due to Christianity. Atheism is largely antagonistic towards anyone who believes in God. The mainstream atheist culture isn't exactly welcoming to Christians. Whereas Christ demands that His followers love not just their fellow men, women and children, but those who disagree with them and even especially those who hate and mock them. Christ permits people to live their lives the way they want. Try doing that in an Islamic nation, where non-muslims and gays are murdered by their government. It's interesting and ironic that liberals go to great lengths to absolve or overlook the evils of Islam (yes, there are many lovely muslims people too) and call it a religion of peace (though there have apparently been some 21, 000+ acts of terrorism in the name of Islam since 9-11, alone). Who can even name more than a few committed in the name of Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, etc. in the last 50 years? The media masters do a really effective job of propagandizing Christians as poorly spoken, white trash, racist, homophobic, confederate flag waving hate mongerers. The pysops used to manipulate the masses is very effective. It's created a culture of people that never question what they're told, what they read, or see in television and movies. Christians are never represented fairly, thus it's not surprising that they've become the counter culture.
Who do you think are the ones going to the Middle East and Africa and helping starving people and those dying from AIDS (missionaries)? Christians do more charitable work than any other group, but mainstream culture in insistent on perpetuating the myth that Christianity is an evil, stifling, archaic belief system that only causes harm to others. It's a crock of crap.

Two ironic trends in our culture right now are the inverted cross (which is used as an anti-christian symbol -- though it is actually the cross of St. Peter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_St._Peter), and those Guy Fawkes masks people wear at protests. Michael Coren had an amusing comment re this: "Those Guy Fawkes masks are meant to resemble one Guido Fawkes, an English Roman Catholic who received his military training in Spain, and who tried to blow up the British Parliament. Beyond the royal family, politicians and establishment, many ordinary people would have been slaughtered. Fawkes was a conservative Catholic, and would have run lefty twits through with his rapier after telling them what morons they were.

The above are just two examples of how out of touch many atheists and liberals are with history.

"Canada has a lot of freedoms due to the modern bit of legislature in 1982 called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. And it exists in spite of so-called judeo-christian beliefs."

Freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of thought, freedom of belief, freedom of expression. Those are pretty Christian concepts.

Dylan an iconoclast? Didn't he have his own 'coming to Jesus' moment? That totally ruins his cred. I'm sure that's something most of his liberal fan base would like to ignore.

No need to respond to any of this. Just let it be rhetorical. I don't want this conversation to drag on indefinitely.

Anyway, can we please get back to talking about Yonge St?

 

[Lenser]

Dylan an iconoclast? Didn't he have his own 'coming to Jesus' moment? That totally ruins his cred. I'm sure that's something most of his liberal fan base would like to ignore.

It doesn't work that way, RLS. You don't get to glibly fire off patently silly statements and then direct people not to bother responding to it. You know better than that.

About Dylan and his supposedly "liberal" fan base. First time I'm hearing that they're all liberals. Wow, nice broad brush there. How did you manage to even lift it? So if an iconoclast has a come to Jesus moment, it ruins all cred? Really. Another thing I didn't know.

Dylan's had many odd turns - they haven't altered his long-term cred one iota. I mean, among his pinko libtard fan base, that is.

Fresh: Ronnie James Dio was a great singer but to me Sabbath was always about Ozzy being in the band. It wouldn't be Sabbath otherwise. It'd be like... Yonge Street without the cheap storefronts.