Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[car4041]

There was a reason eglinton west for years had a subway planned.

Yes, and as was already said above, that reason was politics, not transit planning.

 

[sixrings]

Yes, and as was already said above, that reason was politics, not transit planning.

Exactly what was suppose to convince me that eglinton west was all politics but eglinton east was justified?

 

[car4041]

Exactly what was suppose to convince me that eglinton west was all politics but eglinton east was justified?

Aren't we talking about Network 2011 here? The original plan was for a busway on Eglinton West, west of the Allen. The busway would have been converted to a subway at some future date when demand warranted. There was nothing planned for central Eglinton West or Eglinton East.

The busway plan then became a subway plan due to politics, because Sheppard East was getting a subway.

 

[junctionist]

Yes, and as was already said above, that reason was politics, not transit planning.

So is the current tunnelling just "politics" as well? Bus service has been dysfunctional in the central part of Eglinton West for a long time and more capacity is needed. It's not surprising that a subway line was envisioned before LRT gained the profile it did in the 2000s. It would be the logical connection to the airport and the catalyst for York to gain its own city centre and sense of place. (The city should plan a city centre for York like that of North York.) The initial construction to Black Creek would have merely been the first phase.

 

[sixrings]

Aren't we talking about Network 2011 here? The original plan was for a busway on Eglinton West, west of the Allen. The busway would have been converted to a subway at some future date when demand warranted. There was nothing planned for central Eglinton West or Eglinton East.

The busway plan then became a subway plan due to politics, because Sheppard East was getting a subway.

Sheppard east only got a subway because they canceled the eglinton line. Eglinton was planned way before sheppard got a subway. I think in the original eglinton west subway it was suppose to stop at Keele and then have a busway from Keele to Pearson. But either way from yonge thro central eglinton to Keele was suppose to have underground subway.

 

[car4041]

So is the current tunnelling just "politics" as well? Bus service has been dysfunctional in the central part of Eglinton West for a long time and more capacity is needed. It's not surprising that a subway line was envisioned before LRT gained the profile it did in the 2000s. It would be the logical connection to the airport and the catalyst for York to gain its own city centre and sense of place. (The city should plan a city centre for York like that of North York.) The initial construction to Black Creek would have merely been the first phase.

Look, if you read about Network 2011, it's well-documented that the projected ridership only justified BRT, and the switch to subway was due to political pressure.

My point is that Network 2011 can't be used as proof that the outer section of Eglinton West "deserves" a subway rather than an LRT, as some have argued above.

 

[car4041]

Sheppard east only got a subway because they canceled the eglinton line. Eglinton was planned way before sheppard got a subway. I think in the original eglinton west subway it was suppose to stop at Keele and then have a busway from Keele to Pearson. But either way from yonge thro central eglinton to Keele was suppose to have underground subway.

What plan are you talking about? Here is the Network 2011 plan, which dates from 1985 and eventually led to the Sheppard Subway and the York U extension: http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/subway-5111-03.jpg
East of the Allen, there was nothing planned for Eglinton at all.

 

[sixrings]

What plan are you talking about? Here is the Network 2011 plan, which dates from 1985 and eventually led to the Sheppard Subway and the York U extension: http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/subway-5111-03.jpg
East of the Allen, there was nothing planned for Eglinton at all.

OK fine. There was nothing east of the Allen. But there was a subway planned west of it. Why are you suggesting that there was only a busway planned from eglinton west to Pearson and where are the numbers proving that the line doesn't justify the subway. Btw sheppard numbers doesn't justify a subway either.

 

[car4041]

OK fine. There was nothing east of the Allen. But there was a subway planned west of it. Why are you suggesting that there was only a busway planned from eglinton west to Pearson and where are the numbers proving that the line doesn't justify the subway. Btw sheppard numbers doesn't justify a subway either.

You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglinton_West_line

The initial Network 2011 report stated that the proposed rapid transit line would be a busway, and not a subway. The busway would be the most cost-effective alternative since Eglinton West corridor sits in the vacant Richview Expressway corridor, though in the future it could be expanded to a subway if ridership warranted.
Though the cities of Etobicoke and York strongly supported the concept of an Eglinton Rapid Transit line, as did the Region of Peel, they were unsatisfied with the prospect of a busway. There was some political jealousy over the fact that North York had successfully made the Sheppard Subway a priority...

 

[BurlOak]

Plus I still don't get all this talk here about different forms of transit along Eglinton besides the proposed LRT. It will be an LRT so why talk about the various other forms and whether fully grade separated, etc.

Until it is built, nothing is certain. I do not think that anything other than the tunnelling will be done prior to the next Municipal election and I am certain that transit will be a major election issue. Although I agree that the LRT technology is quite firmly set, I can still see a lot of potential changes depending on the results of the next campaign and election.

 

[sixrings]

You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglinton_West_line

Still no numbers are being provided and what about the plans that existed before network 2011? Also imay be reading it wrong but it appears that the bus way is only suppose to be from where the subway ends (keele) to Pearson via the richview corridor which to this day makes sense.

 

[car4041]

Still no numbers are being provided and what about the plans that existed before network 2011? Also imay be reading it wrong but it appears that the bus way is only suppose to be from where the subway ends (keele) to Pearson via the richview corridor which to this day makes sense.

You might want to re-read this quote from the article, which makes it pretty clear that the whole thing was originally proposed as a busway because ridership didn't warrant a subway.

The initial Network 2011 report stated that the proposed rapid transit line would be a busway, and not a subway. The busway would be the most cost-effective alternative since Eglinton West corridor sits in the vacant Richview Expressway corridor, though in the future it could be expanded to a subway if ridership warranted.

Maybe we could put this discussion to rest. My main point was just that decades-old plans aren't necessarily relevant to the present-day situation. Sometimes plans are based on incorrect predictions (like the wildly inaccurate employment numbers projected for Scarborough Centre) and other times they reflect political pressure rather than sound transit planning. These factors affect current plans too, of course, but regardless, there's not much grounds to say that if something was proposed in 1985, it must automatically be necessary today.

 

[junctionist]

Whenever I read about transit expansion on Eglinton in the context of Network 2011, I wonder how can you build a BRT line on Eglinton when there are only two lanes in each direction in the central section. How could that idea have been taken seriously by planners, unless they envisioned turning Eglinton into a transit mall?

 

[car4041]

Whenever I read about transit expansion on Eglinton in the context of Network 2011, I wonder how can you build a BRT line on Eglinton when there are only two lanes in each direction in the central section. How could that idea have been taken seriously by planners, unless they envisioned turning Eglinton into a transit mall?

Yes, I wonder what the idea was. Could the Belt Line corridor have played a role? (Not that I'm saying that's a good idea, I know it's a few blocks north.)

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Until it is built, nothing is certain. I do not think that anything other than the tunnelling will be done prior to the next Municipal election and I am certain that transit will be a major election issue. Although I agree that the LRT technology is quite firmly set, I can still see a lot of potential changes depending on the results of the next campaign and election.

What are you suggesting? That Ford will win the next election, and pull a Harris? I know I take a bit of a leap in saying this, but even he's not that stupid.

IMHO, the continued chatter is just fanboys wanking. Everyone seems to want to appoint themselves as the be-all and end-all 'expert' that really knows how this thing should be built.