blacktrojan3921
New Member
My god when will construction start on this line? D|
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Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
My son, travel thee to the west end of Eglinton Avenue West, by the shores of the Black Creek. There, thy shall find construction verily has started at the east hillside towards Keele Street. For you shall find digging down in preparation for the boring machines surely has already begun even before winter even started past. Only once the shaft has finished and the base is level, only then can the boring machines begin their work going eastwards towards the rising Don River. So it has been written down in a blueprint, so it shall be done.
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ssiguy2
Senior Member
All things being equal I would agree but things are not equal.
The waste of money here is that the TTC is going to spend a fortune transfering the LRT to SRT with no benefit at all. If the entire Eglinton/SRT line was being built from sratch then I would use standard subway or monorail with the Sheppard to SM section totally grade separated using ROW and elevation. As it stands right now Toronto is spending a fortune for a system with the lowest capacity and the most expensive to build to boot.
LRT, unlike subway, SkyTrain, or monorail, will require a massive refit of all the current SRT stations because it requires a very high clearance due to the catenary lines. LRT is the worse possible technology that the TTC could have used.
nfitz
Superstar
Could be worse ... could be monorail.
car4041
Active Member
What do you mean by lowest capacity? Assuming the RT continues to operate as an independent, fully grade-separated line (as planned), why would LRT trains have a lower capacity from ICTS trains?
BurlOak
Senior Member
I am sure glad transit planner did not build Ontario freeways. We would have 401 West as it is now, then perhaps it would switch to local service through Avenue, Yonge and Bayview with traffic lights at each, and then continue as a freeway to the East. I am sure the capacity at Rouge River or 410 would be comparable to any freeway in the world.
Sorry about the sarcasm, but it seems ridiculous to build a transit line and then break it up into 4 parts (West, tunnelled, East and SRT) when it could just as easily be built as continuous. Also, some of the biggest stops are near the ends (YYZ, STC). The main thing that prevents a STC rider from going to Don Mills/Eglinton is the planned poor service on Eglinton which forces them to transfer. I guess most people who favour the median LRT for Eglinton through Scarborough are also opposed to the DRL being extended to Eglinton - otherwise I cannot understand the logic.
means that artificially forcing poor service on one section is required to p
BurlOak
Senior Member
Jane may well be grade separated anyways - since most other intersecting lines are (Don Mills/Eg, Kennedy/Eg, SRT/Sheppard, Finch/Keele, Don Mills/Sheppard). Farther grade separation is also likely approaching YYZ. The other thing to note is that this stretch of Eglinton is probably the easiest segemtn of a transit line that could be grade-separated in all of Toronto.
I am not sure how low the population is on Eglinton West - we were planning on building a full subway there about 15 to 20 years ago. Also, the major destination is YYZ so even if it is lower density, the line will still get use.
Paleo
Active Member
That was a political decision not a transportation one. Eglinton west barely qualified BRT let alone subway.
car4041
Active Member
Except for the SRT, it will be continuous. Just because it's not all grade-separated doesn't mean it's not continuous. And it couldn't "just as easily" be all grade-separated -- it would take much greater expense, so much that it would probably never happen at all.
I really don't think 2-car LRV trains running at 6-minute headways in a dedicated right-of-way leading to a tunnel can be considered "poor service". OK, it's not *quite* subway-level service, but the Danforth subway is already there and has plenty of capacity, so I'm not sure why diverting riders from it should be a priority.
The original Network 2011 plan was for a busway. It only became a subway for political reasons ("North York is getting a subway so we should too"). And like North York's subway, only a stub was planned to be built: from the Allen to Black Creek. It wouldn't exactly have been the most useful subway around. IMO the Transit City line is a far superior plan.
Rainforest
Senior Member
The SRT-to-LRT conversion does not make the project more expensive (although it might increase the construction time).
I found the link to Metrolinx's 2009 study; Option 1 is ALRT (=ICTS); Option 3 is fully grade-separate LRT on the same alignment (essentially, the current plan).
The table on Page 4 shows that Option 1 costs slightly more (not less) than Option 3.
Rainforest
Senior Member
"Planned poor service" is an exaggeration. I realize that the extra transfer at Kennedy is a nuisance (and frankly don't understand why the TTC does not want to through-route half of SRT trains to Eglinton). But the in-median service through the eastern part of Eglinton will be pretty good compared to the typical mixed-traffic bus routes; and the extra travel time (for in-median versus full grade separation) will be about 5 or 6 min.
DRL East to Eglinton is justified in combination with any form of Eglinton service (even if it kept mixed-traffic buses). Eglinton / Don Mills is a point where several passenger flows are combined.
I agree that a cheaper grade-separation option (= trench that uses the Richview Expressway reserved land strip) should be at least considered for that segment.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
All i care is that if/when the drl is buildt out to eglinton via don mills, Eglington is completely grade separated by then. Since there is only one major intersection between laird and don mills, you could just tunnel under that or even just go around it (its a t intersection)
Palma
Senior Member
Who gotta be joking. Try riding a Eglinton West bus. Service is very frequent which means demand. Houses are also built a ,lot closer to each other so greater density than out in Scarborough. I don;t ride the bus along there but do remember 15 years ago when I did at times and always packed,
Plus I still don't get all this talk here about different forms of transit along Eglinton besides the proposed LRT. It will be an LRT so why talk about the various other forms and whether fully grade separated, etc.
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Paleo
Active Member
No I am not kidding. A lot of people just lack any sense of numbers and scale.
sixrings
Senior Member
There was a reason eglinton west for years had a subway planned.