Blue Jays

[Translude15]

Well I did say "so far". That game was amazing though and had me on the edge of my seat. Morrow really turned the corner when he changed his approach and he's proving to be a huge steal.

Morrow has really improved his game after a rocky start to the season. Me and some buddies are going to see him pitch for the first time this season on Saturday against the Tigers as well. He's been a "steal" so far, but unbeknowst to most, the prospect the Jays gave up for Morrow, Johermyn Chavez, is tearing it up in A+ ball this year. He's got a line of 315./382./581./963. with 31 HRs and 93 RBIs. I think it may be too early to officially label Morrow as a steal.

 

[syn]

No, you said majority, but now you're qualifying that majority as being a bare majority of 15 instead of perhaps 2/3 or 3/4. In that case, as the 15th best team in baseball, they have achieved exactly what they deserved -- zero playoff appearances, and it would have been thus no matter what division they were in.

The question that wasn't properly answered from that article: Someone they've won absolutely nothing with.

I reserve titles like "greatest pitcher in baseball today" for guys who have, at least once in their career, pitched in important September games (never mind October), though I should probably ask for twice from a guy who put up an ERA over 10 (!!!) in his second year as a starter. Be the difference and raise the level of your (15th best) team at least once in your career. That's hardly too much to ask for! Until then, he flatters to deceive.

And by the way, since God came of his recent injury, the team is 0-3 in the games He started. Real walking-on-water, turning-water-into-wine stuff.

I could give a crap what his numbers are (even though describing his second half as "sub-par" is an apologists dream). Again, if baseball is a team game, and Halladay is as great as many say, then one year in his career he has to be able to lead his team and pile up enough extra wins (even if he "only" pitches every fifth day) to get to, if not a championship, if not a World Series, if not a playoff spot, then at the very least some kind of legitimate September pennant race. Great players, even overcoming the odds, lead their team somewhere at least once in their careers. Cite the case.

And seriously, what has he ever really done in the clutch? Last September he had two opportunities to move his team from out-of-it to at least making it a little interesting, and he slipped on a banana peel both times. But at least he ended up with 20 wins for a whole 2nd (!!) time in his career.

A real "best pitcher in baseball" (which all the fawning Toronto media say he is) can take an average team and carry it on his back to at least a division title once in his career. This guy hasn't even come close to that. If he really is the best pitcher in baseball and not a fraud, then I ask, quoting Bob McCown, cite the case?

Simple: IMO the sum has never been equal to the parts with Him. But if it bothers you to hear criticism of He Who Walks On Water, please go back to blaming it all on JP, Wells, and the departed Rios.

At least someone here has lowered His status from the best in the game to one of the best. Progress!

I was curious, how do you like your crow served? I'd recommend the Humble Pie for dessert!

 

[jn_12]

^ Best post ever.

 

[GenerationW]

I was curious, how do you like your crow served? I'd recommend the Humble Pie for dessert!

So He Who Walks On Water goes to a team that was in the World Series the last two years, they don't make it this year WITH Him, and now I'm suppose to eat crow? Not happening.

And look kids, His old team improved by ten games!

^ Best post ever.

Are you sure it wasn't the most innane post ever?

 

[jn_12]

nope, still the best post ever. And actually it might be even better after those comments which showed how little you know about baseball (or at least that your knowledge of it doesn't extend much beyond the gospel according to Richard Griffin).

 

[GenerationW]

Who is Richard Griffin?

 

[syn]

So He Who Walks On Water goes to a team that was in the World Series the last two years, they don't make it this year WITH Him, and now I'm suppose to eat crow? Not happening.

And look kids, His old team improved by ten games!

Are you sure it wasn't the most innane post ever?

Yes, you are. Halladay is one of the big reasons they made the postseason...something you said he'd never done. He's also only the 2nd pitcher in history to throw a no-hitter in the postseason. It wasn't even his 1st no-hitter of the season. He had a perfect game earlier in the year.

As far as pitching goes, 'He Who Walks on Water' seems like an appropriate nickname. At least you got something right.

 

[Kitsune]

So with Farrell as manager now... Manny loves Toronto: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5727014

I wonder if this will impact other players too in a similar way too.

 

[jn_12]

Manny's love for Toronto has been well-known for some time now. He comes to Toronto regularly. I think Farrell just made him even more serious about the prospect of playing here. I don't think there's ever been a concern about attracting players to Toronto, so I'm not sure what Manny would do to cause others to want to flock to Toronto that can't already be done. Frankly, I'm on the fence about him only because he doesn't play into the Jays' long term plans. It means moving Lind to first full time, which he was somewhat brutal at last year (though he had a fairly short leash).

One exciting thing is Farrell is very much an anti-Cito, which is exactly what this team can use, especially since it sounds like the rest of the coaching staff is sticking around

 

[jn_12]

I'll humour/teach you, k?

So He Who Walks On Water goes to a team that was in the World Series the last two years, they don't make it this year WITH Him, and now I'm suppose to eat crow? Not happening.

I'm curious what you were expecting Halladay to do in games 2, 3, 4 and 6 to improve the team's chances of winning? Manuel was an idiot for not starting him in Game 4 in the first place which forced Halladay to get the win in an elimination game. If you want to blame a 4-3 loss on Halladay against the other guy in baseball that you could possibly label as "the best in the game" then by all means, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that knows baseball to agree with you.

And look kids, His old team improved by ten games!

I seriously hope that you noticed that the Jays had Marcum return (who didn't pitch the year before), had Morrow instead of Tallet (who was the Jays' worse pitcher this year) starting every 5th day, and a pitcher who more than doubled his win total from the year before in Cecil (from 7 to 15). If you'd like to go even further and use some stats you probably don't understand, the Jays' pitching staff had a WAR of 14.9 this year compared to 10.9 the year before. Subtract Halladay's WAR of 6.8 and you're talking about a pitching staff that improved by 10.8 (which oddly enough is exactly how many games the Jays' record improved by!). It's common sense too - Young pitchers are going to improve, and they did.

Are you sure it wasn't the most innane post ever?

so where exactly did you buy your crow? St Lawrence?

 

[Translude15]

jn-12, you wouldn't happen to be part of the "Baseball North" facebook group would you?

 

[jn_12]

Nope. I'm not on facebook. I do post on Drunk Jays Fans though.

 

[mangasparky]

I was excited to see a Blue Jays thread on this forum, and then I read through its lack of knowledgeable content. I'll pass.

 

[jn_12]

what do you disagree with? Considering only 4 posts above this I made a post using WAR to prove my point, I'm not sure how much more knowledge you're expecting? Or are you a GenerationW disciple and don't agree with the well-known fact that a pitcher like Halladay can't single-handedly take a team to a World Series?

Oh and if you think you know way more than us, then by all means feel free to teach. Should be fascinating to hear.

 

[Long Island Mike]

For anyone who likes the Blue Jays and other aspects of Baseball: This interesting Forum-
See: www.baseball-fever.com/

They have a Blue Jays section and others for all MLB teams and also defunct ones like the Montreal Expos...
It's well worth a look...LI MIKE