Admiral Beez
Superstar
IMO, police misconduct must also include willful ignorance to criminal activity. Lack of conduct can be misconduct.
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Toronto Police Service Reformation
- Thread starter Admiral Beez
- Start date
trtcttc
Senior Member
That would be extremely hard to enforce. It's very hard to prove someone saw/recognized something when they say they didn't. In the case above, if we start charging the cops, basically there will be willful ignorance. Unless you commit a crime directly in their line of sight, no cop would act and do any enforcement. Why risk any different interpretation of "reasonable search" when you can just do nothing at all?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
This trial needs to be tossed.
www.thestar.com
Isn’t the entire point of police officers being undercover or in plain clothes so that the public will not recognize them as police officers? If so, plain clothes officers should never interact with the public in their official role. If plain clothes cops walked up to my car in a parking lot I’d be locking the doors and looking to escape. And if I saw them flash what they claim is a police badge ($5 at Party City), I’d call 911 and tell them to send a uniform officer here.
Toronto police procedure needs to be amended, so that plain clothes officers never approach the public in their official capacity unless they’re making an immediate arrest. Otherwise, your job is to observe in disguise, and if TPS interactions with the public are necessary, call in a uniformed officer.
‘They’re not dressed like police’: Wife describes fear, confusion before death of Toronto police Const. Northrup
The man and woman screamed, “Get out, get out,” but Aaida Shaikh said she had no idea her family was being approached by police until after Const. Jeffrey Northrup was
www.thestar.com
Isn’t the entire point of police officers being undercover or in plain clothes so that the public will not recognize them as police officers? If so, plain clothes officers should never interact with the public in their official role. If plain clothes cops walked up to my car in a parking lot I’d be locking the doors and looking to escape. And if I saw them flash what they claim is a police badge ($5 at Party City), I’d call 911 and tell them to send a uniform officer here.
Toronto police procedure needs to be amended, so that plain clothes officers never approach the public in their official capacity unless they’re making an immediate arrest. Otherwise, your job is to observe in disguise, and if TPS interactions with the public are necessary, call in a uniformed officer.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
Not a TPS matter, but I hope we have strict rules on when to engage and call off pursuits. Three innocents dead over a non-theft at the Lcbo?
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yrt+viva=1system
Senior Member
picard102
Senior Member
Is this about the lack of 911 operators? The city needs to do something about how understaffed they are, including paying them more if that's what it will take to not have all operators busy anytime you call.
Northern Light
Superstar
From way back in 2021:
The top earner in this job for TPS last year not only made the sunshine list, they earned over 180k; that must be a lot of overtime, experience pay and shift premiums.
Communications Operator Salaries | Ontario Sunshine List
Search the list of people with the position 'Communications Operator' that appeared on Ontario's sunshine list.
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While the starting pay could always be higher.............
My read is that retention issues are likely more burnout related.
Partly due to under staffing and mandatory overtime.
But you also have to deal with rotating shifts, long shifts, and you get only 2 weeks paid vacation in your first year on the job.
I suspect addressing those latter points would be more helpful than a substantial pay rise.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I suspect those top earners are civilian (non-police) department managers.From way back in 2021:
View attachment 600899
The top earner in this job for TPS last year not only made the sunshine list, they earned over 180k; that must be a lot of overtime, experience pay and shift premiums.
Communications Operator Salaries | Ontario Sunshine List
Search the list of people with the position 'Communications Operator' that appeared on Ontario's sunshine list.www.ontariosunshinelist.com
****
While the starting pay could always be higher.............
My read is that retention issues are likely more burnout related.
Partly due to under staffing and mandatory overtime.
But you also have to deal with rotating shifts, long shifts, and you get only 2 weeks paid vacation in your first year on the job.
I suspect addressing those latter points would be more helpful than a substantial pay rise.
DSCToronto
Superstar
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Here we go again.... https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/op...cle_0333c8ee-f9f9-11ef-ad2a-178dfead49a8.html
This may or may not be true but there are FAR too many examples of police (of all ranks) running amok - time for a full investigation of the TPS i would say.
OPP investigating union claims that senior Toronto cop covered up assault against prisoner
This may or may not be true but there are FAR too many examples of police (of all ranks) running amok - time for a full investigation of the TPS i would say.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I assume nothing really happened in the above case. Maybe now we'll see some results, but IDK.
What this city and GTA needs is a provincially appointed tow truck and recovery service. Just as anyone can't start up their own ambulance service.
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lenaitch
Senior Member
Actually you can, just not in a competitive market/emergency response sense. All of the patient transfer services are privately owned and some jurisdictions contract out their land ambulance to private companies. I think Lennox and Addington County does - Muskoka used to to.
For towing, it depends one where along the free market vs state owned spectrum you fall. The GTA does have 'contracted' towing services for provincial highways (I think it's in effect in Ottawa as well - not sure) but, generally, business licencing is a municipal responsibility. I don't know if the Municipal Act gives them the scope of authority to regulate tow trucks to the extent that is probably needed; and I'm not sure the municipalities would want the burden.
There's organized crime in all sorts of sectors where money can be laundered and easy profits made. Organized crime writ large (OMG, traditional, ethnic, street) are into all sorts of sectors. Do we need the province to regulate paving, trucking, etc. beyond what it does now? t's an open secret that some body shops are in on it; do we want the province to regulate those as well?
The towing industry was always a mix of good and shady operators; mostly one-off or small fleet in the small truck world with a few large fleet operators. Organized crime groups have moved in to try and control the turf and that's where the crime and violence happens. The crime is not only in the towing, but what better way to try and legitimize cruising at night, going to and from small buildings in industrial areas, etc.
The sad and unique thing is that a lot of the business brings them in close contact with cops. I know cops 40 years ago who would 'take a $20' to give preferential business. Now, the stakes, and risks, are higher.
doady
Senior Member
Bail reform can't come soon enough.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Information is still a little thin but it is starting to seem that the connection to the towing industry is rather peripheral.
According to CP24, four of the seven TPS members have been suspended w/o pay. This may be a first since the legislation changed.
www.cp24.com
According to CP24, four of the seven TPS members have been suspended w/o pay. This may be a first since the legislation changed.
‘Project South:’ What police have said about the investigation so far
Seven current Toronto police officers and one retired member have been named as suspects in a complex conspiracy that allegedly involved the attempted murder of a senior Ontario corrections officer.
www.cp24.com
Jonny5
Senior Member
Yeah, I've noticed at Leafs games the paramedics are from a private business which has its own private ambulance service for emergencies.
That time John Tavares was badly injured to the point he had to go to St. Mike's emergency, he wasn't taken there by Toronto EMS, the Leafs used that private contracted service as they are paid to be on-site and available on standby for every game.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Events on private property can use whoever they want and I imagine the NHL has some pretty specific rules regarding medical coverage. Some less frequent events will often use St. John Ambulance but I can see the venue and/or NHL wanting a standing contract because of the frequency of events. Toronto EMS likely has a 'paid duty' program but they probably wouldn't commit to a contract.