Finch West Line 6 LRT

[Bordercollie]

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Edmonton knows how to manage an LRT system. Why can't we learn from that?

 

[nfitz]

The plan is a way off, but this will have to become a trunk line to have a decent ROI.

If it went to Don Mills - or even Meadowvale, that wouldn't make it be a trunk line. Just a long collector line. You won't see trips from one end to the other - the same way that extremely few people take the Queen streetcar from Woodbine to Mimico.

If you want an east-west trunk line, then extend the Sheppard subway in both connections, build the 407 Transitway/east-west Ontario Line. Or run an express train from 404 to 427 in Dougies crack tunnel!

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If it went to Don Mills - or even Meadowvale, that wouldn't make it be a trunk line. Just a long collector line. You won't see trips from one end to the other - the same way that extremely few people take the Queen streetcar from Woodbine to Mimico.

If you want an east-west trunk line, then extend the Sheppard subway in both connections, build the 407 Transitway/east-west Ontario Line. Or run an express train from 404 to 427 in Dougies crack tunnel!

All good options. And at some point corridors like Kipling, 427/27, Warden, Kennedy, Markham Rd, Victoria Park need higher order North south transit cause that's whats causing the bottle necks, the lack of north south transit outside central Toronto.

 

[TwoWheelPoli]

Since I had today off, I finally got the chance to ride the new Finch West LRT a.k.a. Line 6. To add a twist to this journey, I did a return trip via bike share to find out which was faster given early reports of the LRT being slow.

I Fought the Train and the … Train Won?

A blog about cycling and political advocacy based in Toronto, Canada. (#BikeTO)

www.twowheeledpolitics.ca

 

[Bojaxs]

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Edmonton knows how to manage an LRT system. Why can't we learn from that?

Am I misunderstanding your post? The guy in the Instagram you posted is critiquing the Valley West line, not praising it, and he brings up a good point.

Billions spent on a transit line, and they have to resort to bringing out guys with brooms to clear the tracks. More excessive labour and "man hours" to keep the line running in the winter. Not to mention they probably have to shut the line down temporarily to allow these guys to do this work.

EDIT: For all we know those workers may have been out there for 30 minutes while the tram waited to move. The Instagram was edited to make it look like it was a quick job.

Does the high floor LRTs in Edmonton have this issue or just the Valley West line?

 

[ownthesky]

Am I misunderstanding your post? The guy in the Instagram you posted is critiquing the Valley West line, not praising it, and he brings up a good point.

Billions spent on a transit line, and they have to resort to bringing out guys with brooms to clear the tracks. More excessive labour and "man hours" to keep the line running in the winter. Not to mention they probably have to shut the line down temporarily to allow these guys to do this work.

EDIT: For all we know those workers may have been out there for 30 minutes while the tram waited to move. The Instagram was edited to make it look like it was a quick job.

Does the high floor LRTs in Edmonton have this issue or just the Valley West line?

Don't look into what is required to clear a bus shelter or a sidewalk for people to use in the winter, the answer might shock you!

Jesse's post is some "jUsT aSking quEstiOns" gish gallop from a wannabe Edmonton politician. Infrastructure requires some manual labour to keep working well. Considering the massive backlog of manual labour work that is due to reduce the TTC subway's slow zones, I think arguing over what transit mode reduces the cost of manual labour is a little silly.

 

[Bojaxs]

Don't look into what is required to clear a bus shelter or a sidewalk for people to use in the winter, the answer might shock you!

Jesse's post is some "jUsT aSking quEstiOns" gish gallop from a wannabe Edmonton politician. Infrastructure requires some manual labour to keep working well. Considering the massive backlog of manual labour work that is due to reduce the TTC subway's slow zones, I think arguing over what transit mode reduces the cost of manual labour is a little silly.

Most bus stops can be cleared by a sidewalk plow, and and one city worker. Usually relatively quick.

You didn't answer the question. Does the high floor LRT lines in Edmonton have the same issue with snow & ice as the Valley West line experiences? I couldn't care less how silly you think my question is.

 

[chrisw]

Since I had today off, I finally got the chance to ride the new Finch West LRT a.k.a. Line 6. To add a twist to this journey, I did a return trip via bike share to find out which was faster given early reports of the LRT being slow.

I Fought the Train and the … Train Won?

A blog about cycling and political advocacy based in Toronto, Canada. (#BikeTO)

www.twowheeledpolitics.ca

Wow, 41 minutes for your LRT trip.

 

[jmi22]

The Jane bus/corridor is the lead candidate for LRT conversion, followed by the other busiest bus routes (Wilson, Lawrence West, etc).

Checked the news lately buddy?

 

[officedweller]

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This is what Portland is doing for Autumn leaf muck in the tracks:

TriMet on Instagram: "It’s time to clean up the fall leaves around the system 🧹Our new “Cameleon” machines help us clear fall foliage, ice, snow and debris that can accumulate and disrupt service. The machines are called Cameleons due to their versa

15K likes, 104 comments - trimet on December 4, 2024: "It’s time to clean up the fall leaves around the system 🧹Our new “Cameleon” machines help us clear fall foliage, ice, snow and debris that can accumulate and disrupt service. The machines are called Cameleons due to their versatility and...

www.instagram.com

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

What I don't understand is, ignoring TSP, why is it so much slower than the bus. The bus has to wait at all the lights too. You'd expect it to be a bit slower all things being equal because unlike a bus a train stops at every stop

Even the whole wheel bearing fear. Ottawa runs the same trains much faster through far more curves they aren't being this excessively cautious

Ottawa also runs theirs on twice the Line 6 nominal voltage (1 500 V DC for Ottawa vs 750 V DC for Line 6) which not only allows the trains to be paired together but also have a much more aggressive acceleration curve.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

You're jumping to conclusions afaik. Very few, if any, are advocating for a 10+ km subway on Finch West. We're incredulous at the wasted money for next to 0 ROI in terms of social benefit per $ spent. The 36 buses are jam packed while few ride the LRT. The waste from the overbuiltness of the line: the cavernously deep descent from the new Finch West LRT entrance etc... The money blown here could've been saved up for higher ROI projects like more subways closer to downtown. Finch West doesn't have the ridership to warrant an LRT in Toronto's austerity context, despite dozens of people regurgitating the same talking points they heard from the internet. There are other, more deserving corridors that should've gotten transit improvements before a single dime was spent on Finch West a full 20 km away from Downtown as the crow flies. Not to mention the tons of CO2 emissions that went into building this white elephant that will likely never be recouped for hundreds of years, even if the 36 were replaced entirely.

Fall 2023 bus corridor weekday ridership:
1. — 39 Finch East + 939 Finch Express, 46,000
2. — 29 Dufferin + 929 Dufferin Express, 42,100
3. — 52 Lawrence West + 952 Lawrence West Express, 40,000
4. — 35 Jane + 935 Jane Express, 38,800
5. — 25 Don Mills + 925 Don Mills Express, 38,000
6. — 96 Wilson + 996 Wilson Express, 36,000
7. — 54 Lawrence East + 954 Lawrence East Express, 35,600
8. — 36 Finch West, 35,500

Notice anything here? Basically all the other bus corridors have higher population densities.

Lawrence won't get higher order transit because it's too close to Line 5 Eglinton. Wilson/York Mills won't get one because it's too close to the planned Line 4 extensions. Don Mills is getting the Ontario Line, and Finch East has the potential to get a Line 6 extension east. Jane is getting RapidTO lanes as is Dufferin. Most of Dufferin's ridership is south of Bloor, and most of the Jane ridership is between Finch and Eglinton. Finch West From Keele to Hwy 27 was much busier than that Fall 2023 number once all the construction finished before the launch of Line 6.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Am I misunderstanding your post? The guy in the Instagram you posted is critiquing the Valley West line, not praising it, and he brings up a good point.

Billions spent on a transit line, and they have to resort to bringing out guys with brooms to clear the tracks. More excessive labour and "man hours" to keep the line running in the winter. Not to mention they probably have to shut the line down temporarily to allow these guys to do this work.

EDIT: For all we know those workers may have been out there for 30 minutes while the tram waited to move. The Instagram was edited to make it look like it was a quick job.

Does the high floor LRTs in Edmonton have this issue or just the Valley West line?

Happens with a lot of embedded track switches Ice chunks get trapped between the switch blades and impede their ability to move fully by the looks of it they didn't install an electric switch heater there since a lot of those crossovers are so infrequently used so that just makes the problem worse. It Happens on the high floor system in Calgary too but only with the infrequently used embedded double crossovers in the downtown segment the frequently used splits and merges for the Red and Blue line are in an open pit with gas switch heaters.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Ottawa also runs theirs on twice the Line 6 nominal voltage (1 500 V DC for Ottawa vs 750 V DC for Line 6) which not only allows the trains to be paired together but also have a much more aggressive acceleration curve.

That's actually a good point that I hadn't thought of, pokey acceleration isn't one of the flaws that people complain about here

 

[smallspy]

Am I misunderstanding your post? The guy in the Instagram you posted is critiquing the Valley West line, not praising it, and he brings up a good point.

Billions spent on a transit line, and they have to resort to bringing out guys with brooms to clear the tracks. More excessive labour and "man hours" to keep the line running in the winter. Not to mention they probably have to shut the line down temporarily to allow these guys to do this work.

EDIT: For all we know those workers may have been out there for 30 minutes while the tram waited to move. The Instagram was edited to make it look like it was a quick job.

Does the high floor LRTs in Edmonton have this issue or just the Valley West line?

All railways need inspection, and the more frequently used it is the more frequent the inspections must be. These guys appear to be inspecting and cleaning out a heavily used set of switches.

Even the major railways, which do absolutely everything in their power to avoid paying for anything, have guys going out and inspecting - and sweeping - out switches on a regular basis. The more important the switch, the more often it gets checked.. Switch heaters can help, but there is nothing that can beat a guy or two with axes and brooms for cleaning out chunks of ice from switch points.

Ottawa also runs theirs on twice the Line 6 nominal voltage (1 500 V DC for Ottawa vs 750 V DC for Line 6) which not only allows the trains to be paired together but also have a much more aggressive acceleration curve.

While that is true in theory, in practice it is not. The streetcars in Toronto run at 600V dc, and even with a higher percentage of driven axles (100% versus 60% for the cars in Ottawa) they are very capable of spinning the wheels on acceleration.

What a higher line voltage does get you is fewer substations / longer distances between system feeds - and thus, in some ways lower costs.

Happens with a lot of embedded track switches Ice chunks get trapped between the switch blades and impede their ability to move fully by the looks of it they didn't install an electric switch heater there since a lot of those crossovers are so infrequently used so that just makes the problem worse. It Happens on the high floor system in Calgary too but only with the infrequently used embedded double crossovers in the downtown segment the frequently used splits and merges for the Red and Blue line are in an open pit with gas switch heaters.

It's not just embedded track that this happens at. And in fact in some respects, embedded track is actually less susceptible to large chunks of ice fouling the switches when compared to exposed track.

Dan