News   Dec 18, 2025
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Finch West Line 6 LRT

This right here is a logical fallacy. Just because something worked well in some other cities, doesn't mean it was the optimal choice for Toronto. You’ve got to compare the population distribution, density and land-use patterns, not to mention account for future growth.

If you build for small city demand in a big city corridor, you’re just paying billions to create a future bottleneck. Ironically, in Finch West's case, it probably didn't deserve an LRT before Finch East, Lawrence, etc. got transit improvements.

You should build an LRT only if you never expect that corridor to need a subway. If a corridor could conceivably support a subway in the future, an undercapacity LRT will eventually lead to untenable congestion. So instead of supporting long-term intensification, the corridor stalls out and growth shifts elsewhere *cough* Eglinton.

Very large cities like Paris and Istanbul do LRT quite well actually. An LRT should work fine on this corridor, even at grade. It's somehow been implemented spectacularly badly. It's like they looked at a static image of other cities LRTs and said nice looking stops (they actually are nicer than a lot of other cities) , nice right of way, etc and built it. But never looked at how those other systems actually operated
 
The Line 6 platform at Finch West Station looks like it is enclosed, but the temperature is virtually the same as outside. Obviously Humber College Station's platform is fully exposed, but are there any things that can be done to make the temperature more comfortable without being a complete waste of energy? I don't really have any experience with indoor but not temperature controlled stations in the system or abroad, so I could be missing something obvious.
The portal is right at the end of the platform at Finch West station. One can literally see light from the outside. It should be comfortable during summer as it is below surface, but in winter it is as enclosed as a bus shelter without doors (in terms of temperature).
 
The portal is right at the end of the platform at Finch West station. One can literally see light from the outside. It should be comfortable during summer as it is below surface, but in winter it is as enclosed as a bus shelter without doors (in terms of temperature).
Are there any heaters on the platform? In Ottawa the Line 1 platforms are open, but the Transecure area (aka DWA) always has heaters and a (somewhat ineffective) wind screen
 
Very large cities like Paris and Istanbul do LRT quite well actually. An LRT should work fine on this corridor, even at grade. It's somehow been implemented spectacularly badly. It's like they looked at a static image of other cities LRTs and said nice looking stops (they actually are nicer than a lot of other cities) , nice right of way, etc and built it. But never looked at how those other systems actually operated
Look at the ridership numbers in 2023 or 2024 and tell me that Finch West deserved a full-blown LRT before these other corridors got any transit improvements. Finch West was chosen because it was the only road already wide enough for an LRT among the top corridors pre-covid. But it was always less densely populated than half a dozen other corridors. Its pre-covid high ridership was more of a function of it feeding into Humber College, than latent transit demand of the surrounding low-density communities.

I'm glad you brought up Paris and Istanbul; both of those cities only have trams running in denser corridors than Finch West. It's mind boggling y'all are ignoring the fact that LRTs are usually built in denser, more walkable corridors. A near exact analog of Line 6 is T9 in Paris*, which has a ridership up to 100,000 per day. I can't see Line 6 hitting even 50,000 per day given the decline in international students. I'm not anti-LRT in general, I'm anti-spend-money-on-Finch-west when downtown adjacent Dufferin was sufferin' until recently. The city and province have tight budgets, they need to prioritize higher social ROI projects instead of vanity projects in the suburbs.

*both 10.3 km long, 18 and 19 stops respectively, both have terminus subway connection; but T9 is 5 km from the centre of Paris, whereas Line 6 is 20 km from downtown Toronto.
Make this make sense:

Fall 2023 bus corridor weekday ridership:
1. — 39 Finch East + 939 Finch Express, 46,000
2. — 29 Dufferin + 929 Dufferin Express, 42,100
3. — 52 Lawrence West + 952 Lawrence West Express, 40,000
4. — 35 Jane + 935 Jane Express, 38,800
5. — 25 Don Mills + 925 Don Mills Express, 38,000
6. — 96 Wilson + 996 Wilson Express, 36,000
7. — 54 Lawrence East + 954 Lawrence East Express, 35,600
8.
— 36 Finch West, 35,500

The argument that Finch West is a short route so the buses are the most packed doesn't hold water either (I've circled Finch West). https://stevemunro.ca/2024/02/15/overcrowding-on-ttc-bus-routes/
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Look at the ridership numbers in 2023 or 2024 and tell me that Finch West deserved a full-blown LRT before these other corridors got any transit improvements. Finch West was chosen because it was the only road already wide enough for an LRT among the top corridors pre-covid. But it was always less densely populated than half a dozen other corridors. Its pre-covid high ridership was more of a function of it feeding into Humber College, than latent transit demand of the surrounding low-density communities.

I'm glad you brought up Paris and Istanbul; both of those cities only have trams running in denser corridors than Finch West. It's mind boggling y'all are ignoring the fact that LRTs are usually built in denser, more walkable corridors. A near exact analog of Line 6 is T9 in Paris*, which has a ridership up to 100,000 per day. I can't see Line 6 hitting even 50,000 per day given the decline in international students. I'm not anti-LRT in general, I'm anti-spend-money-on-Finch-west when downtown adjacent Dufferin was sufferin' until recently. The city and province have tight budgets, they need to prioritize higher social ROI projects instead of vanity projects in the suburbs.

*both 10.3 km long, 18 and 19 stops respectively, both have terminus subway connection; but T9 is 5 km from the centre of Paris, whereas Line 6 is 20 km from downtown Toronto.
Make this make sense:

Fall 2023 bus corridor weekday ridership:
1. — 39 Finch East + 939 Finch Express, 46,000
2. — 29 Dufferin + 929 Dufferin Express, 42,100
3. — 52 Lawrence West + 952 Lawrence West Express, 40,000
4. — 35 Jane + 935 Jane Express, 38,800
5. — 25 Don Mills + 925 Don Mills Express, 38,000
6. — 96 Wilson + 996 Wilson Express, 36,000
7. — 54 Lawrence East + 954 Lawrence East Express, 35,600
8.
— 36 Finch West, 35,500

The argument that Finch West is a short route so the buses are the most packed doesn't hold water either (I've circled Finch West). https://stevemunro.ca/2024/02/15/overcrowding-on-ttc-bus-routes/
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Therein lies the problem though, as you stated Finch West was converted to LRT because it was the easiest of the routes to fix, all the other ones have some kind of issue holding them back. Finch East is to narrow and there it doesn't appear there is enough space to expand the road until you get to Scarborough, Dufferin is to narrow so either we would need to build a line underground which is expensive or convince the TTC to re-embrace mixed traffic streetcars, Lawrence West is to narrow and space for expansion is effectively non-existent for its entirety, Jane becomes to narrow south of the 400 (this was a known problem during the Transit City era), Don Mills can be solved by a northern extension of the Ontario Line, Wilson is also to narrow with little to no expansion room, and lastly while Lawrence East is wide it doesn't have a natural western terminus so an LRT there would have to be a branch of the Crosstown, or it would have to be a BRT that goes to Don Mills Avenue.

Basically all of these corridors have higher ridership but fixing the issues is much harder short of just slapping some red paint down on the road and calling it a day. It's a good temporary solution but eventually you run out of buses to throw at the problem and more permanent infrastructure will be required.
 
Therein lies the problem though, as you stated Finch West was converted to LRT because it was the easiest of the routes to fix, all the other ones have some kind of issue holding them back. Finch East is to narrow and there it doesn't appear there is enough space to expand the road until you get to Scarborough, Dufferin is to narrow so either we would need to build a line underground which is expensive or convince the TTC to re-embrace mixed traffic streetcars, Lawrence West is to narrow and space for expansion is effectively non-existent for its entirety, Jane becomes to narrow south of the 400 (this was a known problem during the Transit City era), Don Mills can be solved by a northern extension of the Ontario Line, Wilson is also to narrow with little to no expansion room, and lastly while Lawrence East is wide it doesn't have a natural western terminus so an LRT there would have to be a branch of the Crosstown, or it would have to be a BRT that goes to Don Mills Avenue.

Basically all of these corridors have higher ridership but fixing the issues is much harder short of just slapping some red paint down on the road and calling it a day. It's a good temporary solution but eventually you run out of buses to throw at the problem and more permanent infrastructure will be required.
There is no excuse for Finch West to start early works in 2016, 9 years before Dufferin got a small bus lane segment. A logical timeline would be to optimize the other corridors, within a reasonable budget...well before spending even a dime on Finch West. I am genuinely hard pressed to find a similar tram built in such a low-density, low latent transit demand area as Line 6, anywhere in the world. Finch West should've gotten an LRT after the other corridors got bus lanes, and after another downtown subway was built, to say the least. Not the other way around.

Line 6 was cheaper to build on Finch West than on a closer-to-downtown corridor, but that also resulted in the proportional ROI being lower. And as of now, ROI is basically 0 since more people ride the 36 buses than Line 6. There is a strong pro-LRT bias on these threads to the point of irrationality. In what world would it make more sense to build Line 6 before the Ontario Line, before improving higher density routes with high latent demand. Almost no one is saying Finch West should never get an LRT ever—the timing is what’s really in doubt. Building it earlier, before the density warrants it and/or before improving denser routes is a poor use of taxpayer dollars.

"The city and province have tight budgets, they need to prioritize [higher ROI projects] instead of vanity projects in the suburbs."
 
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There is no excuse for Finch West to start early works in 2016, 9 years before Dufferin got a small bus lane segment. A logical timeline would be to optimize the other corridors, within a reasonable budget...well before spending even a dime on Finch West. I am genuinely hard pressed to find a similar tram built in such a low-density, low latent transit demand area as Line 6, anywhere in the world. Finch West should've gotten an LRT after the other corridors got bus lanes, and after another downtown subway was built, to say the least. Not the other way around.

Line 6 was cheaper to build on Finch West than on a closer-to-downtown corridor, but that also resulted in the proportional ROI being lower. And as of now, ROI is basically 0 since more people ride the 36 buses than Line 6. There is a strong pro-LRT bias on these threads to the point of irrationality. In what world would it make more sense to build Line 6 before the Ontario Line, before improving higher density routes with high latent demand. Almost no one is saying Finch West should never get an LRT ever—the timing is what’s really in doubt. Building it earlier, before the density warrants it and/or before improving denser routes is a poor use of taxpayer dollars.

"The city and province have tight budgets, they need to prioritize higher social ROI projects instead of vanity projects in the suburbs."
How can you quantify ROI as a measurable metric when the system hasn't even operated for one month? Just because other corridors have higher ridership does not mean project ROIs will be higher, especially if extensive infrastructure improvements and expropriation is required.

Providing higher order transit in a lower income neighborhood is not a "vanity project".
 
I've written this elsewhere, but I think "Where should we prioritise what to build?" is far less important to me than "How much can we actually build it for?"

6FW cost as much per km as Sheppard did. Paris T9 was built at 1/6th of 6FW.

You can argue that X corridor should be getting an LRT before Y corridor. If we had our stuff together, X,Y,Z,W,A, and B corridors would all have their LRT.
 
How can you quantify ROI as a measurable metric when the system hasn't even operated for one month? Just because other corridors have higher ridership does not mean project ROIs will be higher, especially if extensive infrastructure improvements and expropriation is required.

Providing higher order transit in a lower income neighborhood is not a "vanity project".
Feel free to disagree, my hypothesis rests on higher latent demand from the corridors that are more densely populated. Finch West is a comparatively low density area, and yet historically has had disproportionately high bus ridership. I attribute this to the 36 bus feeding Humber College during the academic year. The powers-that-be prioritizing transit for post-secondary students, lower income areas, lower car ownership households is actually something I very strongly support. But that also would mean there isn't much latent demand to be realized on Finch West. And even if there were more latent demand than I predict, it would not be captured since the planned headways on Line 6 are so awful. T9 took a 50k bus route to up to 100k ridership per day. I would be very surprised to see Line 6 average even 50k in its first year, barring some kind of TSP+operations+reliability improvement miracle.

I hope I'm wrong, and Line 6 gets 70k+ ridership per day, but all evidence I've found points otherwise. Going with the 51k cited by the province, that's still an incredibly low ROI for the $3.7 billion to build and maintain. Hence the much higher proportional ROI along other corridors; even if they aren't getting LRT, a painted bus lane grants huge social benefits for very little financial cost. It's not a novel concept I'm espousing when I advocate for transit to be prioritized where there is more people. Not pointing to any particular person, but it feels like there is some system-justification-manufactured-consent going on. Just because the government said it was a good idea to build Line 6 since 2015 (or earlier), doesn't mean it was a good idea in hindsight. Especially not in its current form failing to connect to Finch station on Line 1 Yonge.

"Province relieving gridlock and connecting more than 51,000 daily riders to more convenient transit" ... The 36 bus averaged 54,870 riders per day in Fall 2019. They're bragging about worse projected ridership than 2019 after upgrading to LRT... The GTA's population has grown up to 20% since 2019. The implication is Line 6 will not capture any latent transit demand.
https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1006817/ontario-opening-new-finch-west-lrt
 
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The argument that Finch West is a short route so the buses are the most packed doesn't hold water either (I've circled Finch West). https://stevemunro.ca/2024/02/15/overcrowding-on-ttc-bus-routes/
View attachment 703676
That figure shows routes that are overcrowded. Not routes that are busy. If a route had 100 passengers per hour, and only ran once an hour, it would be very yellow on this map.

The figure neither supports nor doesn't support the thesis. You need a ridership figure - not a crowding figure.
 
Very large cities like Paris and Istanbul do LRT quite well actually. An LRT should work fine on this corridor, even at grade. It's somehow been implemented spectacularly badly. It's like they looked at a static image of other cities LRTs and said nice looking stops (they actually are nicer than a lot of other cities) , nice right of way, etc and built it. But never looked at how those other systems actually operated
The difference is that other cities build trams either for short haul trips, as feeders to other transit lines, or make use of extensive off street segments. Paris is a perfect example of this, many of its Tram Lines run in dedicated Rail ROWs, or in cases like the T9 - the RER C is literally 1km to the east of the line. If you live in Orly and want to commute to the city, you're not going to take the T9, you're going to take RER C. The T9 is only used for short haul trips along the T9 corridor, and isn't meant to be used as a way to connect a far flung borough to the rest of the city.

Finch West isn't like this, it is literally the only form of "Rapid" Transit to Northern Etobicoke other than *maybe* Etobicoke North GO station, and thus has to do the heavy lifting for that section of the city. Don't forget that even in the best case scenario where we can get Finch West down to a 35m travel time, that's still 35m just to get to Finch West, then however long it takes to get wherever you want to go whether its downtown or midtown or whatever.
 
The difference is that other cities build trams either for short haul trips, as feeders to other transit lines, or make use of extensive off street segments. Paris is a perfect example of this, many of its Tram Lines run in dedicated Rail ROWs, or in cases like the T9 - the RER C is literally 1km to the east of the line. If you live in Orly and want to commute to the city, you're not going to take the T9, you're going to take RER C. The T9 is only used for short haul trips along the T9 corridor, and isn't meant to be used as a way to connect a far flung borough to the rest of the city.

Finch West isn't like this, it is literally the only form of "Rapid" Transit to Northern Etobicoke other than *maybe* Etobicoke North GO station, and thus has to do the heavy lifting for that section of the city. Don't forget that even in the best case scenario where we can get Finch West down to a 35m travel time, that's still 35m just to get to Finch West, then however long it takes to get wherever you want to go whether its downtown or midtown or whatever.
I feel like 6 FW could become a feeder/short haul line if it was extended down to Woodbine, and especially so if/when GO manifests 7m30 headways on the UPX.
 
The difference is that other cities build trams either for short haul trips, as feeders to other transit lines, or make use of extensive off street segments. Paris is a perfect example of this, many of its Tram Lines run in dedicated Rail ROWs, or in cases like the T9 - the RER C is literally 1km to the east of the line. If you live in Orly and want to commute to the city, you're not going to take the T9, you're going to take RER C. The T9 is only used for short haul trips along the T9 corridor, and isn't meant to be used as a way to connect a far flung borough to the rest of the city.

Finch West isn't like this, it is literally the only form of "Rapid" Transit to Northern Etobicoke other than *maybe* Etobicoke North GO station, and thus has to do the heavy lifting for that section of the city. Don't forget that even in the best case scenario where we can get Finch West down to a 35m travel time, that's still 35m just to get to Finch West, then however long it takes to get wherever you want to go whether its downtown or midtown or whatever.

I feel like 6 FW could become a feeder/short haul line if it was extended down to Woodbine, and especially so if/when GO manifests 7m30 headways on the UPX.

The crazy thing is, you two are right, and this will have to be extended to any value. The trip is just as long now, but if this had opened to Yonge, then we would not be here, or at Woodbine. The plan is a way off, but this will have to become a trunk line to have a decent ROI. Which means they need to go to Don Mills, or all the way to Neilsen and tie it in with the SMLRT. Same thing with Woodbine and the Airport/ECLRT in the west.
 

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