Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

[urbanclient]

way fewer change orders

Yes, this exactly. For whatever reason, I'm told these P3 projects are riddled with change order agreements which are inevitable in the hundreds, if not thousands. Even though P3s were initially marketed as "fixed-price", cost increases always happen. And more often than not, the government pays.

 

[Northern Light]

Yes, this exactly. For whatever reason, I'm told these P3 projects are riddled with change order agreements which are inevitable in the hundreds, if not thousands. Even though P3s were initially marketed as "fixed-price", cost increases always happen. And more often than not, the government pays.
View attachment 703367

One reason is that they tend to take them to tender at 60% design.

But there's implicit design for tendering purposes, so when you take design to 100%, shocker, its not what you modeled out at 60%

 

[narduch]

The new hospital in Niagara is being designed while they build it

 

[Northern Light]

The new hospital in Niagara is being designed while they build it

This is known as the progressive, or collaborative P3 model; I don't like it either.

It doesn't make sense to me to collaborate on design with a firm/consortium with a conflict of interest in that the more expensive the project, the more said firm benefits, meanwhile a firm with a fixed maintenance term has incentives to lower its own short-term costs, but to limit asset life expectancy to the term of the contract and to maintain on the assumption they will lose the contract at expiry.

I find the whole idea illogical.

 

[wopchop]

The new hospital in Niagara is being designed while they build it

Many are done this way. And yes it this never works properly, or quite how they think it will.

You get a PSOS and specifications issued to subcontractors that aren't vetted properly, so there are lots of adjustments required, therefore you get CO's

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The new hospital in Niagara is being designed while they build it

Will the new hospital contain a casino for in-patients and out-patients?

 

[urbanclient]

Will the new hospital contain a casino for in-patients and out-patients?

It's not money that will be gambled with, it's your health.

 

[PL1]

It's not money that will be gambled with, it's your health.
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Longer hospital stays no not necessarily mean there's worse quality of care or health. (Though I believe healthcare needs a lot more funding, and arguably Toronto needs much more hospital, emergency, and general healthcare infrastructure and staff).

Take a look at Sunnybrook, for example: it is a level 3 regional trauma centre, and handles complex cancer cases. All emergency departments triage patients. If a trauma comes in, that delays people with a broken arm. A patient waiting for a consult with a cancer specialist may seek faster admission through emergency (which is a kind of back door entry). People showing up at emergency to see a cancer specialist are likely very sick, and probably require admission. Yes, I'm simplifying things, but I don't think comparing Sunnybrook to Scarborough –Birchmount is a direct comparison

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Crossposted from the PM Carney thread since it's a joint federal provincial deal:

Prime Minister Mark Carney and Premier Doug Ford have signed an agreement to speed up the approval of major projects under a “one project, one process, one decision” model.

This approach means that projects that would have been subject to environmental assessments at both the federal and provincial levels will now go through Ontario’s process alone.

The agreement also contains language that sets a deadline for the federal impact assessment agency to complete its review of roads to planned mining projects in the Ring of Fire region of northern Ontario by June 2026.

Webequie First Nation and Marten Falls First Nation are leading environmental assessments on three roads that would connect the provincial highway system to their communities and mining activities in the mineral-rich Ring of Fire.

While both First Nations say the roads will help lift the fly-in communities out of poverty, other nearby First Nations are not on board with the plan.

The Ring of Fire is home to major critical mineral deposits and the provincial and federal governments see it as a major economic driver.

Ontario, Ottawa agree to speed up project approvals, including Ring of Fire mining

Carney and Ford signed an agreement to speed up the approval of major projects under a "one project, one process, one decision" model.

toronto.citynews.ca

 

[ARG1]

re: drinking age and other retail politic choices Ford could make:

The US drinking age of 21 is an abject failure - adults under that age don't not drink, they just drink in uncontrolled environments like house parties at much higher rates. Half the reason US frat culture is so strong is because students aren't allowed to go to bars. It leads to higher crime rates, increased use of illicit substances (if alcohol is as illegal as weed, coke, etc. why not use that too?), unsafe alcohol practices (no bartender or bouncer to control those too drunk), etc.

The drinking age should be 18. Yes, alcohol isn't good for you, but making it illegal actually makes it worse.

I agree as well that I'm surprised Ford hasn't taken aim at Municipalities new favourite activity of introducing ridiculously low speed limits. Many US States and provinces have specific criteria that must be met for speed limits - including MTO - Ford could pass legislation requiring municipalities to match their criteria to those of MTO for example, which look at pedestrian volumes, design speed, actual vehicle speeds, and other factors in determining speed limits. Right now municipalities can set whatever they want which leads to ridiculous things like 40 limits on controlled access roadways and 50-60 limits on rural roads. If a municipality wants a deviation from the formula they should need ministerial approval. Ford has hinted at being willing to play with speed limits by increasing 400 series limits to 110.. but has been cautious. I think he can be a lot more aggressive here and win a lot of political brownie points - increasing a lot of rural provincial highways to 90 and setting specific criteria for municipal speed limits included.

Similarly, I'm surprised Ford didn't eliminate front license plates during the whole failed license plate refresh - a common complaint from many people and one which the majority of jurisdictions in Canada don't follow (only Ontario, Manitoba, and BC require front plates).

Ford's government is good at reading the room on retail politics moves like the ones I mentioned above that get him solid political points, but they are useless on the more complex issues. See their work on the housing front - very little progress and what they do try to implement is generally a giant mess (though there is .... slow progress). Same with countless other examples - even on his favourite topic of highways the PCs prioritize attention-grabbing projects like new highway corridors over priortizing funding to expand existing routes which result in substantial improvements for lower overall costs.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Ford should just upload the roadways he doesn't want Municipalities messing with. Don't want Bike Lanes on Bloor or University? Hey they used to be Highways 5 and 11A respectively, upload them and you can do whatever you want, set whatever speed limit you want - makes more sense than micromanaging regional/municipal roadways for what Bike Lanes/Speed Cameras they introduce. And yes I know that even before Harris these highways were municipally controlled under connecting links agreements, but still that's a stronger basis to setup rules regarding minimum speed limits and lane arrangements.

 

[DSCToronto]

The more I think about it, the more I think that Ford should just upload the roadways he doesn't want Municipalities messing with. Don't want Bike Lanes on Bloor or University? Hey they used to be Highways 5 and 11A respectively, upload them and you can do whatever you want, set whatever speed limit you want - makes more sense than micromanaging regional/municipal roadways for what Bike Lanes/Speed Cameras they introduce. And yes I know that even before Harris these highways were municipally controlled under connecting links agreements, but still that's a stronger basis to setup rules regarding minimum speed limits and lane arrangements.

The whole point of having different 'levels' of government is to allow those who have some idea of what is needed to manage things and generally allow the lowest level to do things that are within their competence and financial ability. Ford has demonstrated that not only is his government is prone to award contracts to his friends rather than to the most competent but also that he 'gets ideas into his head that are not supported by evidence - e.g. speed cameras do save lives, lower speed limits do save lives, bike lanes do save lives and do not delay motorists by very much, if at all. He would be far better if he stuck to his own lane and stopped trying to micromanage things using his 'gut feelings' as his road map!

 

[urbanclient]

The whole point of having different 'levels' of government is to allow those who have some idea of what is needed to manage things and generally allow the lowest level to do things that are within their competence and financial ability. Ford has demonstrated that not only is his government is prone to award contracts to his friends rather than to the most competent but also that he 'gets ideas into his head that are not supported by evidence - e.g. speed cameras do save lives, lower speed limits do save lives, bike lanes do save lives and do not delay motorists by very much, if at all. He would be far better if he stuck to his own lane and stopped trying to micromanage things using his 'gut feelings' as his road map!

He's commenting as to what Ford should do to better advance his own personal agenda, not whether doing the aforementioned would actually benefit the average Ontario resident...

 

[DSCToronto]

He's commenting as to what Ford should do to better advance his own personal agenda, not whether doing the aforementioned would actually benefit the average Ontario resident...

Of course Mr Ford would manage to achieve more of his stupid ideas if he had no opposition and the Assembly had very short sessions (Oh, he already has that!) and if anything that attracted his gaze was within his power to change.

 

[ARG1]

Of course Mr Ford would manage to achieve more of his stupid ideas if he had no opposition and the Assembly had very short sessions (Oh, he already has that!) and if anything that attracted his gaze was within his power to change.

That's tangential to my point at best. If Ford wants to have strong control over municipal matters, then make it provincial matter.

Its kinda like the whole issue with the City of Toronto trying to install Tolls on Gardiner/DVP, is it fair that the province can overrule the city on installing tolls whilst also insisting that they're municipal roads that the city has to pay for? If the province doesn't want the city to install tolls on roads, then the province should pay for them. If the province doesn't want bike lanes on roads, then the province should pay for/manage them. If the province (hypothetically) thinks that speed limits are too low, then own them and pay for them.

 

[urbanclient]

That's tangential to my point at best. If Ford wants to have strong control over municipal matters, then make it provincial matter.

Its kinda like the whole issue with the City of Toronto trying to install Tolls on Gardiner/DVP, is it fair that the province can overrule the city on installing tolls whilst also insisting that they're municipal roads that the city has to pay for? If the province doesn't want the city to install tolls on roads, then the province should pay for them. If the province doesn't want bike lanes on roads, then the province should pay for/manage them. If the province (hypothetically) thinks that speed limits are too low, then own them and pay for them.

This would free up the city budget for the TTC for their state of good repair backlog. And maybe even a new transit line that isn't a P3 waste of taxpayer money, possibly corrupt, consortium-enriching Metrolinx boondoggle.