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Montréal Transit Developments

Northern Light makes a good point here. It was a lucky coincidence that the new bridge and old tunnel were already done/planned prior to REM construction. However, it's still really impressive the cost per km for effectively doubling the rail rapid transit network in Montreal with automated 'express' metro with double the potential capacity of L5 Eglinton (pphpd). Even if taking $18 billion CAD for 67km, that is still $270 million per km, which is likely going to be 1/3rd the per km cost of Line 5 Eglinton.
Or the 5(?)-station Blue Line extension to Anjou they committed to 45 years ago (if they haven't cancelled it yet - I haven't been paying much attention in the last month).

Apples and oranges. Compare to the hundreds of mile of converting the 5 GO lines to frequent service. Or the Bowmanville GO extension. Or even the Finch LRT.

And also, when looking at Eglinton - look at the capital portion of the cost (not sure what you used here). The usual published version includes 30+ years of maintenance in future $ (including the vehicles themselves), financing costs, and operational subsidies. Ditto for Finch - which is why we see both a 1+ billion price and a nearly $3 billion price floating around. And an even smaller when done in the 2010$ or 2020$ they used for planning.
 
It is worth pointing out that Exo operates most buses outside of the STM, STL (Laval) and RTL (Longueuil) areas, when AMT merged with the outer suburban CITs to create Exo. They certainly have not done a good job of linking the two modes together since amalgamation. There’s still definitely a need for commuter/regional rail on its remaining routes, even if the St. Jerome and Mascouche Lines are truncated to meet REM rather than going Downtown.
I have a feeling the plan (or restructuring) will be for EXO to shutdown the commuter rail and just run buses to REM stations.
 
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Reading this article is frustrating. It's sad how Quebec doesn't seem to care for EXO in the same way Ontario does for GO.

It sounds like they're relying on REM to help take some (or a lot) of the load off of EXO once it's up and running. The last couple sentences were somewhat concerning. What is this "restructuring" they speak of? Sounds like they're toying with the idea of completely shutting down EXO once the REM is fully up and running. They'll probably run buses along the former Mascouche and Candiac lines.
I'm guessing it's restructuring like the RTL was forced to do to make sure there was no service that can be seen as competition or duplication for the REM.
 
Listen, we all get that you're a member of the REM and CPPQI fan club, and I am not.

We can have different takes, to a point.

But you come very close to being outright misleading with yours.

Lets start with timeline. The base project, with CPPQ involvement was announced in January....2015. By the time it wraps...........it will have been at least 11.5 years.

If you measure from the initially announced construction date, it began December 2017, so 8.5 years.

if you measure from the actual start of construction, that was April 2018, which would see it about 8 years, if there are no further delays.

Finally, the initial opening date was July 31st, 2023.

Measured from the actual ground breaking date, construction was supposed to have lasted 5 years, 3 months.

If the line completes in April '26 it will be 2 years and 9 months late; which is an increase of 2 years 9 months which is a 49% overrun/delay.

****

On budget. The final version of the project, from 2017 was publicly announced at 5.9B in cost.

By groundbreaking in April '18, 10 months later, pre-pandemic, the cost had risen to 6.5B

The current estimated budget is 9.4B an increase from the Jun 2017 date of 3.5B an increase of 59%!



REM re-used existing rail corridor for the most part, including an existing tunnel, only a small amount of net new ROW was required. But you must consider the impact to existing or then existing commuter rail service to be removed.

The net gain is not as large as you would make it out to be, in any event a comparison to a line

I'm more than happy to rip the province and Metrolinx over Eglinton Crosstown. But just to point this out.

Assuming (big if) it opens by year end, the project will completed ~ 5 years late; on a construction schedule of ~ 9 years (broke ground October '2011) or 55% overrun.

On budget, the Crosstown construction tender was 9.1B the current estimated budget which I will be the first to put a big asterisk beside) is 12.8B that's an overage of 238B that's an overage of 40.6%

Overall comparison as follows:

Project Name: Percent delayed Percent over budget

REM 49% 59%

Crosstown 55% 40.6%




Not a legitimate comparison in either case

Crosstown was an entirely new corridor, there was no existing commuter line to reuse it has 10km of brand new tunnel. Building the line elevated was never an option through the tunneled stretch.

The Ontario Line had no existing tunnel to re-use either, its 9km of new tunnel, there is only about 3km shared with the existing GO Lines with an elevated guideway and 3 bridges, 2 significant making up the balance
I agree with you on the fact that REM made use of many existing ROW and infrastructure such as Pont Champlain that saved them a lot of time and money.

But that was kind of the my point - I didn’t intend to discredit Crosstown as project - I’m sure it’ll be very useful and popular for Toronto when it opens. I’m more inferring to the model of delivery that CDPQi took - delivering a MVP minimally viable product with as much existing resources as possible vs. building from scratch with all the bells and whistles. Imagine where we’d be at right now if REM decided to build a brand new bridge to Brossard, acquire its own ROW to Deux Montagnes, or bore its own under Mont Royal? Each one of those things is a decade long endeavour that has the potential to completely derail the whole network - just look at the budget estimates for Blue Line extension or ARTM’s new proposal for the Tram de l’Est (thankfully down from their original ask for $36 billion for a tramway…).

Can the CDPQi build a brand new tunnel and procure brand new ROWs without encroaching on Exo? Yes. But should they? Especially from a budget, timeline, and project delivery perspective? That’s an entirely different question. I know you are neither a fan of the project nor the delivery model it uses, and that’s fine. We can agree to disagree on this point.

I live in Montreal (next to a future REM station) so I know how acutely affects our neighbourhood - and how this network will positively improve everyone’s commute in the neighbourhood. There is a very positive buzz and excitement around this project and everyone is looking forward to the opening of the next phase in November 2025.

Even if you account for all of the extra costs and existing infrastructure benefits you mentioned (let’s just say double the final cost from $9 billion to $18 billion), it’s still a relatively economical project for 67 KM of high frequency rapid transit that covers the island and south shore and the airport - this project alone has prompted the ADM to embark on its own $10 billion YUL expansion project including new terminals, realignment of access roads (announced in July 2025), and entirely new terminal station and building for the underground REM station, along with additional $1 billion funding from Canada Infrastructure Bank in July 2025. None of this would’ve happened this quickly without the original REM being delivered.
 
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I agree with you on the fact that REM made use of many existing ROW and infrastructure such as Pont Champlain that saved them a lot of time and money.
The tunnel, highway ROWs, and existing alignments. Sure.

But the rail span on the Champlain Bridge was designed and built specifically for a Central to Brossard LRT service, that had been studied by the Quebec Ministry of Transport since the turn of the century. Though if they managed to get the feds to pay for the entire thing, that was genius.
 
Curious, is Translink in Vancouver offering permanent parallel (redundant) bus services along side all of the Skytrain routes? What happens when Vancouver Skytrain breaks down?
Honestly, like most transit, once operations are seasoned over a couple years you hardly see significant downtime, especially for automatic transit that's grade separated, with automatic screen doors.

Which leads me to no worry about this at all
 
But that was kind of the my point - I didn’t intend to discredit Crosstown as project - I’m sure it’ll be very useful and popular for Toronto when it opens. I’m more inferring to the model of delivery that CDPQi took - delivering a MVP minimally viable product with as much existing resources as possible vs. building from scratch with all the bells and whistles. Imagine where we’d be at right now if REM decided to build a brand new bridge to Brossard, acquire its own ROW to Deux Montagnes, or bore its own under Mont Royal? Each one of those things is a decade long endeavour that has the potential to completely derail the whole network - just look at the budget estimates for Blue Line extension or ARTM’s new proposal for the Tram de l’Est (thankfully down from their original ask for $36 billion for a tramway…).
Considering the amount of time it has taken them thus far, boring a new tunnel may have well been the quicker option. It would have been built to their exact specs, to the exact alignment that they needed, and with none of the headaches of having to rip out all of the old equipment first in a confined area.

Cheaper maybe, too.

Dan
 
Reading this article is frustrating. It's sad how Quebec doesn't seem to care for EXO in the same way Ontario does for GO.

It sounds like they're relying on REM to help take some (or a lot) of the load off of EXO once it's up and running. The last couple sentences were somewhat concerning. What is this "restructuring" they speak of? Sounds like they're toying with the idea of completely shutting down EXO once the REM is fully up and running. They'll probably run buses along the former Mascouche and Candiac lines.
Costs per user per km for EXO trains are about 5x per km than the REM (and REM includes infra costs). I wouldn't be surprised if EXO is shut down entirely, especially for the Vaudreuil line as it's so close to future REM stations. I know the ARTM had this under study.
 
Costs per user per km for EXO trains are about 5x per km than the REM (and REM includes infra costs). I wouldn't be surprised if EXO is shut down entirely, especially for the Vaudreuil line as it's so close to future REM stations. I know the ARTM had this under study.
What will happen to these locomotives currently been built???
 
The Chargers are supposed to replace the F59s, but the ALP45s have seemed like odd ones out for some time. Then again, it's not like GO Transit have made the needed progress on electrification to make an offer for them, and NJT has been happier buying new ALP45As.

They have 11 59PHIs, 20 ALP45s, plus 20 BBD bilevels, 43 CRRC bilevels, 165 BBD Multilevels. They just renovated Lucien L'Allier. REM doesn't do much for Candiac or MSH and the reliability of the expanded network is unproven as yet. Maybe they could see if anyone wanted the BBD bilevels and 59PHIs to simplify their maintenance operation somewhat?

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Interesting thread posted on the Montreal subreddit where OP complained about the EXO train he rode being packed and riders were forced to stand or sit on the floor. OP was thoroughly down voted and the general response seemed to be "just deal with it". One poster even respond with "the floor looks clean enough to sit on."

Surely these responses can't be representative of people in Montreal? These comments must be coming from the folks who live in the car centric suburbs around Montréal.

 
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Interesting thread posted on the Montreal subreddit where OP complained about the EXO train he rode being packed and riders were forced to stand or sit on the floor. OP was thoroughly down voted and the general response seemed to be "just deal with it". One poster even respond with "the floor looks clean enough to sit on."

Surely these responses can't be representative of people in Montreal? These comments must be coming from the folks who live in the car centric suburbs around Montréal.

These big city subreddits seem to attract the most miserable people, so I'm not surprised.

But I mentioned this a few weeks ago: exo is experiencing a huge uptick in ridership with no funds to expand service.

Though I'm realizing now this is the St-Jerome line and I thought it was relatively ok. Maybe more return to office is making it worse.
 
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