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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

^Both Woodstock and Brantford deserve the same kind of station investment that has been made further east at Cobourg and Belleville. I doubt that either CN or VIA would be comfortable with a second platform without a pedestrian overpass or underpass. I agree that putting the Sarnia service on the Brantford route and fixing the “weaving” would at least give better service.
Yes it goes without saying that a new platform would be accompanied by a new pedestrian overpass or underpass. If it's an overpass it could even be extended over to Main Street which runs along the north side of the station, cutting the walking distance to the station from the city centre.

The key to improving service on the north line - and at this point I don’t care who runs it, so your suggestion that VIA withdraw is quite palatable - is passing capacity. While ML may be using its funding wisely, by starting with tackling bridges and crossings and track east of Kitchener, those sidings are an urgent prerequisite to getting things right. I sure hope we see shovels go in the ground on these this spring.

What the Kitchener-Stratford-London line needs is 4-5 runs each way spaced out over the day. As you noted, a departure out of Toronto as early in the AM as possible is the start of that. (The fact that it can’t be run west of Georgetown earlier than 09:42 demonstrates the siding problem).

I doubt that VIA would withdraw, no matter how rational a solution that might be…. too much political ammunition if they folded their flag, even if it produced better interim service.
I disagree that the first order of business is to build passing sidings west of Kitchener. The location of passing sidings is dependent on the travel times and headways, and with the a 60-minute headway currently being locked in due to the sidings under construction east of Kitchener, any sidings west of Kitchener will lock in the travel times at the time of their construction.

My opinion is that the first order of business is to upgrade the track speeds. My suggestion is to continue westwards with the same work that GO is currently doing between Kitchener and Georgetown - including both sidings and track upgrades in one project so that the sidings end up in the right places. To expedite visible results, it could be done in phases starting with Kitchener-Stratford once GO acquires the line from CN.

Furthermore, the frequency possible on the line is also strongly affected by the line speed. In the absence of any passing sidings, the current 2h10 London-Kitchener travel time translates to a minimum two-way headway of 4h20. With the 1976 travel time of 1h13, that headway would drop to 2h26. Of course we wouldn't fix the tracks up to that extent without building any sidings, but the point is sidings alone are not the most helpful.

The good news is that once the new sidings in Guelph and Acton come online (Summer 2023), the massive gaps in counter-peak service could disappear, which already goes a long way to increase the possible London-KW-Toronto frequency. The first westbound train to London could depart Union as early as 07:15, arriving in Kitchener around 08:30 after the last eastbound AM London train, and arriving London around 10:30.

What this route needs is an integrated business case and service plan… you know, the kind where federal and provincial people get in a room together, take off their hats, and works together to find the best solution without regard to politics or level of government.. Only then will we know just how much investment is required, and where. I’m not sure we will ever see that train arrive.
This is exactly what the line needs, especially given how current investments could lock in future conditions as I described above. At the moment the situation west of Kitchener seems to consist mostly of value signalling from politicians, but hopefully the federal and provincial governments' statements about VIA and GO working together to create a plan for Southwestern Ontario passenger rail actually translate to a serious initiative.
 
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I disagree that the first order of business is to build passing sidings west of Kitchener. The location of passing sidings is dependent on the travel times and headways, and with the a 60-minute headway currently being locked in due to the sidings under construction east of Kitchener, any sidings west of Kitchener will lock in the travel times at the time of their construction.

Yes - I chose my words poorly, I actually was thinking of the sidings east of Kitchener which is where there is the most acute need to be able to pass trains.

Getting track speeds up further west is absolutely necessary. The existing sidings (Stratford and Kellys) would be OK for now provided running times could be raised... although with the current sidings spaced so far apart, any delay to a meet might cascade down the schedule. Some sidings should be added just to provide flexibility in operations.

I wonder if some double tracking - not necessarily the whole line, but between say Rock Cut and Acton - might actually be required to meet the combined needs of a proper GO/VIA integrated service. That's one reason to see an integrated service plan. All things with time, one hopes.

- Paul
 
Yes - I chose my words poorly, I actually was thinking of the sidings east of Kitchener which is where there is the most acute need to be able to pass trains.

Getting track speeds up further west is absolutely necessary. The existing sidings (Stratford and Kellys) would be OK for now provided running times could be raised... although with the current sidings spaced so far apart, any delay to a meet might cascade down the schedule. Some sidings should be added just to provide flexibility in operations.

I wonder if some double tracking - not necessarily the whole line, but between say Rock Cut and Acton - might actually be required to meet the combined needs of a proper GO/VIA integrated service. That's one reason to see an integrated service plan. All things with time, one hopes.

- Paul
My mistake, I misread your post. I was thinking as if those sidings are a given, but you're right that we still need to make sure work actually starts on them this year as planned.

Assuming CN permits a second train per hour (i.e. 1 VIA + 1 GO) through Silver junction after the grade separation is built, I think that extending the double-track around Acton could indeed help speed up VIA service since that's where they will need to meet the basic hourly GO service, and unlike the peak-period GO trains, they don't stop there.
 
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Now we’re well into March, in-person classes are back, and more employers are recalling workers to the office, and GO is still functioning under January Omicron peak conditions.

I do know it takes some time to assign crews and schedules, but it’s quite ridiculous at the point that it’s radio silence at GO/Metrolinx.

I wonder now if it’s to allow for a happy goody provincial announcement with Ford, Mulroney, Surma, and a bunch of Mississauga and York Region MPPs.
 
Now we’re well into March, in-person classes are back, and more employers are recalling workers to the office, and GO is still functioning under January Omicron peak conditions.

I do know it takes some time to assign crews and schedules, but it’s quite ridiculous at the point that it’s radio silence at GO/Metrolinx.

I wonder now if it’s to allow for a happy goody provincial announcement with Ford, Mulroney, Surma, and a bunch of Mississauga and York Region MPPs.
@smallspy said about a week ago that the rules in Metrolinx require upper management to notify the boys on the ground (I assume operators, dispatchers, and whatnot) of service expansions 2-3 weeks ahead of time. Now the following is pure speculation on my part based off many different accounts I have heard about Metrolinx over the years: In classic Metrolinx fashion, the reason why we haven't seen service expansion yet is likely due to mismanagement. They decided to increase service, however forgot to articulate that to the actual dispatchers, and now we have to wait for an extra few weeks to actually get service running again properly.
 
@smallspy said about a week ago that the rules in Metrolinx require upper management to notify the boys on the ground (I assume operators, dispatchers, and whatnot) of service expansions 2-3 weeks ahead of time. Now the following is pure speculation on my part based off many different accounts I have heard about Metrolinx over the years: In classic Metrolinx fashion, the reason why we haven't seen service expansion yet is likely due to mismanagement. They decided to increase service, however forgot to articulate that to the actual dispatchers, and now we have to wait for an extra few weeks to actually get service running again properly.

Metrolinx' process for implementing service changes is actually pretty well-understood and well followed. If ML were ready to implement a service change, they know how to do it. They have done lots to this point.

I'm not suggesting ML doesn't have its left-hand, right-hand issues, but I would not say that's why we are not seeing service improvements.

There has definitely been attrition in ML's work force over the course of COVID. A significant number have moved on to other work - either out of necessity, or (with the same thing happening elsewhere, so lots of job openings out there) the grass just looked greener.

Plus, running empty trains and hoping for an upturn in ridership is very expensive.

Staff shortages and a desire not to ramp up until there is less prospect of another wave, and another lockdown would be more credible explanations.

- Paul
 
Now we’re well into March, in-person classes are back, and more employers are recalling workers to the office, and GO is still functioning under January Omicron peak conditions.

I do know it takes some time to assign crews and schedules, but it’s quite ridiculous at the point that it’s radio silence at GO/Metrolinx.

I wonder now if it’s to allow for a happy goody provincial announcement with Ford, Mulroney, Surma, and a bunch of Mississauga and York Region MPPs.
One way of looking at when service could possibly change is going to a trip planner and look at schedules in the future. I couldn't go past the first weekend of April so it looks like we might be getting the changes then...

I still agree that its ridiculous. I took the 5:49pm Kitchener train today and for the first time since the pandemic began in my experience, it was flooded with most seats taken and people standing all across the train. The most it would get is just 1 person per quad before, now its a whole different level. This is probably one reason why we need to run express/local trains like we did back in September because there were more people who got off from Bramalea and beyond. Also, its not just the trains that need an increase in service, but certainly the buses as well (mainly the ones that uses 401 and 407).
 
Now we’re well into March, in-person classes are back, and more employers are recalling workers to the office, and GO is still functioning under January Omicron peak conditions.

I do know it takes some time to assign crews and schedules, but it’s quite ridiculous at the point that it’s radio silence at GO/Metrolinx.

I wonder now if it’s to allow for a happy goody provincial announcement with Ford, Mulroney, Surma, and a bunch of Mississauga and York Region MPPs.
I'll take a stab at it. Part of it also, I believe, is that the fiscal year is up, and so it'll be important to remain within the budget and constraints leading up to the deadline (March 31). Not a whole lot of works being awarded out I hear. 🤷‍♂️
 
I actually think GO not changing it's schedule is a prudent move,

Co-fares are starting in just a week and it takes time to see the impact it has on ridership not only on individual lines but also the times of the day. It would be shortsighted to change the schedules now only to have to change them again in a couple months.
 
I’m surprised that municipalities that GO services do not use Presto (and that the provincial government hasn’t forced them to). For all its faults - and there are many - it’s truly convenient to have a single transit card across agencies.
I'm not surprised at all, at least for BWG. I remember at least one occasion pre-pandemic where I had to ride a Type A school bus because they didn't have enough working buses to run. I'm not aware of any significant improvements in service or funding since then.
 
I actually think GO not changing it's schedule is a prudent move,

Co-fares are starting in just a week and it takes time to see the impact it has on ridership not only on individual lines but also the times of the day. It would be shortsighted to change the schedules now only to have to change them again in a couple months.
On the other side of the topic, why would they still run Omicron levels of service during March Break? Wouldn’t there be such a high demand for Exhibition, Niagara, Kitchener and Barrie travelers so more trains would be necessary? Kids are at school in class now so the time off would encourage more ridership with families and friends taking GO, especially with the fare discounts getting introduced.
 
On the other side of the topic, why would they still run Omicron levels of service during March Break? Wouldn’t there be such a high demand for Exhibition, Niagara, Kitchener and Barrie travelers so more trains would be necessary? Kids are at school in class now so the time off would encourage more ridership with families and friends taking GO, especially with the fare discounts getting introduced.

First there is really no need for dedicated trains to Exhibition Place during the March Break.

Secondly, are they even running Niagara excursion trains right now?
 
First there is really no need for dedicated trains to Exhibition Place during the March Break.

Secondly, are they even running Niagara excursion trains right now?
I wasn’t implying to run trains from other lines directly to Exhibition. The Lakeshore lines right now is currently at 30 min service and bringing back 15 min or better all day between Union-Oakville is all that’s needed. Niagara trains aren’t running at all besides the one rush hour trip per weekday per direction.
 
I wasn’t implying to run trains from other lines directly to Exhibition. The Lakeshore lines right now is currently at 30 min service and bringing back 15 min or better all day between Union-Oakville is all that’s needed. Niagara trains aren’t running at all besides the one rush hour trip per weekday per direction.
The Lakeshore service is going to get some improvements in early April, but 15 minute service is not in the cards yet.

Dan
 

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