GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Northern Light]

Thinking more about it, what if GO charged 10% more than a day fare or a monthly pass of the local transit agency for all it's parking? So, lets say a round trip on local transit would cost $6, the day parking would be $6.60. Let's say a monthly pass is $100, a monthly parking pass would be $110. Would there be a massive drop in GO users, or would people finally leave the car at home?

The model you propose is fine; IF there is high quality local service in place.

As it stands, if 1/2 of GO riders switched from parking to transit, the local systems would be overwhelmed and most people would be left standing the curb for an hour or more.

So a great deal needs to be done to improve local service.

One thing that should happen is that:

1) GO should be notifying each region of when it intends to phase-in paid parking and indicate its best estimation of increased transit use and share any origin/destination data w/the local transit provider.

2) GO should tie increases in service to areas to minimum transit service thresholds based on service hours per capita.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

**Snip**
Worth saying DRT has a decent level of new service hours proposed in 2020, but its far less useful than it should have been, as they are picking up a new route to Bomanville replacing the GO service which is eating up a good chunk of that money.

Well in my case it would be DRT rt # 403 which take a rather circuitous route to the station via Wentworth and Thickson, I'm assuming it's to serve the few light industrial businesses along Wentworth because there is literally nothing else there other than the GM plant. Couldn't the route run up Stevenson and along Bloor? And then the route only had 30 minute frequencies.

 

[Northern Light]

Well in my case it would be DRT rt # 403 which take a rather circuitous route to the station via Wentworth and Thickson, I'm assuming it's to serve the few light industrial businesses along Wentworth because there is literally nothing else there other than the GM plant. Couldn't the route run up Stevenson and along Bloor? And then the route only had 30 minute frequencies.

In looking at the route, I would intuitively run it all the way down to Victoria, then to Whitby GO; alternatively, I'd have it turn at Dundas but go to Brock and down to Whitby GO.

They seem to have made the route do what it does to serve that isolated subdivision.

It would seem to me, the answer to that problem is not running the bus down a tiny side street, but resolving the isolation by connecting the community to Garden Street which already has its own bus service, at 2 or more locations.

Connecting the other way to Hopkins may be less desirable (truck traffic) but should also be considered.

 

[crs1026]

^I always have to restrain myself when someone complains that they are losing a freebie. Parking at GO is not free. It has a measurable cost. I'm sure ML knows what the budget for parking lot construction maintenance and operation is. People who park are using something that has value and they are not paying anything for the value they receive. I can't see this as an affront to their Constitutional rights! and funny, usually Cons favour making people pay for things they use rather than looking to the public purse. I wonder how much political courage Ford actually has. (rhetorically speaking)

It would be reasonable to charge to achieve the same cost recovery as the GO fare itself. If a parking spot costs $10 a day to operate, including capital cost over say 15 years, and GO's cost recovery target is 75%, then charge $7.50 for the spot. (Hypothetical number for illustration only - pulled out of thin air). Charge the taxpayer the remaining 25%.

Right now, parking comes out of ticket revenues. Separate the income streams, and the price of the fare itself can be lowered. Not all riders park, so a $7.50 charge for a parker might only work out to a $4.00 fare reduction when spread across all fares (again, hypothetical and illustrative). The cost to parkers goes up, but the change produces a politically attractive offering to riders, especially if only a minority of riders do park.

I hope the "studies" that have been alluded to look at this kind of thing. And yes, it makes the case to boost subsidy to transit connections, but that can be a standalone.

- Paul

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

In looking at the route, I would intuitively run it all the way down to Victoria, then to Whitby GO; alternatively, I'd have it turn at Dundas but go to Brock and down to Whitby GO.

They seem to have made the route do what it does to serve that isolated subdivision.

It would seem to me, the answer to that problem is not running the bus down a tiny side street, but resolving the isolation by connecting the community to Garden Street which already has its own bus service, at 2 or more locations.

Connecting the other way to Hopkins may be less desirable (truck traffic) but should also be considered.

Extending route 406 along Wentworth would put a number of riders from the 403's catchment area into it's (the 406's). Then the 403 can be re routed along park to avoid the detour along the small residential road.

 

[micheal_can]

I know that ONR has been trying to figure out how to get WiFi on the Northland (they have it on most of their bus routes) but satellite connectivity, particularly two-way is really expensive.

That is why if it ever was brought to VIA, it should be for ticket purchase, not for general use.

^I always have to restrain myself when someone complains that they are losing a freebie. Parking at GO is not free. It has a measurable cost. I'm sure ML knows what the budget for parking lot construction maintenance and operation is. People who park are using something that has value and they are not paying anything for the value they receive. I can't see this as an affront to their Constitutional rights! and funny, usually Cons favour making people pay for things they use rather than looking to the public purse. I wonder how much political courage Ford actually has. (rhetorically speaking)

It would be reasonable to charge to achieve the same cost recovery as the GO fare itself. If a parking spot costs $10 a day to operate, including capital cost over say 15 years, and GO's cost recovery target is 75%, then charge $7.50 for the spot. (Hypothetical number for illustration only - pulled out of thin air). Charge the taxpayer the remaining 25%.

Right now, parking comes out of ticket revenues. Separate the income streams, and the price of the fare itself can be lowered. Not all riders park, so a $7.50 charge for a parker might only work out to a $4.00 fare reduction when spread across all fares (again, hypothetical and illustrative). The cost to parkers goes up, but the change produces a politically attractive offering to riders, especially if only a minority of riders do park.

I hope the "studies" that have been alluded to look at this kind of thing. And yes, it makes the case to boost subsidy to transit connections, but that can be a standalone.

- Paul

The problem of local transit is not the fault of the province or of GO or Metrolinx. The problem is yoru local government. The mayors and councilors you voted for that are causing this issue. Hamilton is learning a hard lesson about voting wishy washy local politicians.

 

[APTA-2048]

Worth saying DRT has a decent level of new service hours proposed in 2020, but its far less useful than it should have been, as they are picking up a new route to Bomanville replacing the GO service which is eating up a good chunk of that money.

Just skimming the doc, there are also a number of service cuts. Service in Ajax and Pickering also isn’t that great to begin with.

To make the idea of paid parking palatable, local transit needs to step up big time in some areas. Things like dedicated GO shuttles or on-demand service, more frequent service, and more service outside of rush hour.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Just skimming the doc, there are also a number of service cuts. Service in Ajax and Pickering also isn’t that great to begin with.

To make the idea of paid parking palatable, local transit needs to step up big time in some areas. Things like dedicated GO shuttles or on-demand service, more frequent service, and more service outside of rush hour.

Exactly. Which is why I support funneling some of the funds collected from parking into the local transit agencies where it is collected. In Durham for example there are approx 13,000 parking spaces (including paid reserved parking) between Pickering, Ajax, Whitby, and Oshawa. So if say $1.50 from each parking space were given to DRT that's $19,500 per day or $4.875 million per year!!! I don't even know what DRT's budget is but I bet that would be a significant chunk of their budget.

 

[micheal_can]

Just skimming the doc, there are also a number of service cuts. Service in Ajax and Pickering also isn’t that great to begin with.

To make the idea of paid parking palatable, local transit needs to step up big time in some areas. Things like dedicated GO shuttles or on-demand service, more frequent service, and more service outside of rush hour.

20 years ago when I was going to college in Whitby, the bus service was horrendous. Now, it seems DRT hasn't learned from it.

 

[APTA-2048]

20 years ago when I was going to college in Whitby, the bus service was horrendous. Now, it seems DRT hasn't learned from it.

I would say Whitby is/was one of the better municipalities. Though for me, that’s my experience from 2005 to about 2010. There’s a lot of a chicken-and-egg thing going on in Durham. People don’t take the bus because the service can be poor. The service is poor because people don’t take the bus.

 

[micheal_can]

I would say Whitby is/was one of the better municipalities. Though for me, that’s my experience from 2005 to about 2010. There’s a lot of a chicken-and-egg thing going on in Durham. People don’t take the bus because the service can be poor. The service is poor because people don’t take the bus.

So, how do you fix that? This makes me think there should be one transit organization in charge of all service that a GO train services. Then it can be worked out where buses go to the stations and serve more people. A least 20 years ago, when a GO train was coming or going, all buses in Whitby went to the station.

 

[TransitBart]

Metrolinx plans to convert tens of thousands of GO station parking spots from free to paid

The shift is planned to begin within months and will be a pricey change for many of the roughly 65,000 GO customers who drive to the stations

www.theglobeandmail.com

While I support any initiative that reduces the demand for parking on the GO Network, having multiple times attempted to find options to take local transit to the GO and finding that local transit is wholly inadequate for this I feel that driving to GO stations is simply inevitable.

What I think a fair solution would be is for a moderate expansion of available parking, turning existing lots into parking garages etc. Then charge a parking fee but funnel some of that revenue into the local transit agencies so that they can improve their services.

(Personal note: I have recently moved to Oshawa, and despite living ~5km from the GO station local transit would take 30 mins compared to driving which is under 10 mins. My commute is already inconvenient enough as my office is not in the downtown core thus making the express trains a non option for me. I think I would be ok paying ~$3 to $5 to park at an expanded Oshawa garage knowing that some of those funds are going towards improving DRT services in the area)

If the transportation cost is not offset somehow, I can see drivers back on the road.

 

[Northern Light]

Caroline Mulroney says government is committed to free parking amid Metrolinx’s plan to boost paid spots

Ontario’s Transportation Minister suggested she is open to replacing some unpaid parking with paid spots, but did not answer directly when asked if free should remain the majority

www.theglobeandmail.com

Here we have the government undermining Metrolinx and the environment in one fell swoop.

However, their lucky day, the NDP crtiic Jessica Bell managed to come out in favour of free parking as well.

Sigh.

 

[micheal_can]

Caroline Mulroney says government is committed to free parking amid Metrolinx’s plan to boost paid spots

Ontario’s Transportation Minister suggested she is open to replacing some unpaid parking with paid spots, but did not answer directly when asked if free should remain the majority

www.theglobeandmail.com

Here we have the government undermining Metrolinx and the environment in one fell swoop.

However, their lucky day, the NDP crtiic Jessica Bell managed to come out in favour of free parking as well.

Sigh.

Heaven forbid the burbs pay the real costs....

 

[gweed123]

Heaven forbid the burbs pay the real costs....

"User pays!... Unless it's something I use, then it should be covered by the government."